Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Automaton · 04-28-2002, 08:33 PM

If they think atheism teaches life has no inherent value, then what does Original Sin teach?

Cutter · 04-28-2002, 08:41 PM

Ha! What rot! Atheism says "This is all that you get, make the most of it." Theism says "You don't get to the good stuff until you die." No wonder religious zealots are so prepared to snuff it.

Eudaimonist · 04-28-2002, 08:48 PM

"Life has no authentic meaning."
"There are no moral absolutes or imperatives."

I disagree with both statements, and I'm an atheist. I wish those people at theforce.net would place the blame on the ethical doctrines that do espouse these statement, not on atheism.

SmashingIdols · 04-28-2002, 09:06 PM

I am almost certain I read somewhere how these two believed intimately in hell, which would make them anything but atheists.

I think there has been some confusion that atheists are people who worship satan, or don't like god, or any other scenario which implies they still believe in A God or A Heaven or A Hell, just disagree or protest the whole thing.

I think he said "Do you believe in God?" before he shot her because he was demented and either believed he was scaring her, or playing god by somehow being the agent for her discovery of what is really true, rather than seeking her denial. He would have killed her either way. He was insane.

BTW - I have seen some pretentious stuff on the web but the Jedi Council has me rolling on the floor. What a riot!

[ April 28, 2002: Message edited by: SmashingIdols ]

Aquila ka Hecate · 04-28-2002, 10:41 PM

Just a small point also:

<a href="http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/09/30/bernall/print.html" target="_blank">http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/09/30/bernall/print.html</a>

(Cassie Bernall said no such thing, but has been turned into a marytr)

Daggah · 04-29-2002, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eudaimonist:
"Life has no authentic meaning."
"There are no moral absolutes or imperatives."

I disagree with both statements, and I'm an atheist. I wish those people at theforce.net would place the blame on the ethical doctrines that do espouse these statement, not on atheism.

Except, Eudaimonist, the belief that life has no meaning and that there are no moral absolutes is about as culpable as atheism is - i.e., it's not.

Daggah · 04-29-2002, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aquila ka Hecate:
Just a small point also:

<a href="http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/09/30/bernall/print.html" target="_blank">http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/09/30/bernall/print.html</a>

(Cassie Bernall said no such thing, but has been turned into a marytr)

I was about to say the same thing.

So much for Exodus 20:16, right? Well, from the creationist movement, and the Religious Right's tendency to claim that America is a Christian nation, it's not Christians being intellectually dishonest is something new.

jdawg2 · 04-29-2002, 03:47 PM

no, no, no...

it was obviously the computer game, Doom.

SmashingIdols · 04-29-2002, 04:02 PM

Quote:

<a href="http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/09/30/bernall/print.html" target="_blank">Salon Story Excerpted Below</a>:

Salon News reported last Thursday that investigators believed the famous exchange actually took place between Klebold and Valeen Schnurr, and was mistakenly attributed to Bernall. Now Schnurr herself has confirmed that story. On Tuesday the Denver Post reported her account, which she also told to Salon News:

Schnurr was down on her hands and knees bleeding, already hit by 34 shotgun pellets, when one of the killers approached her. She was saying, "Oh, my God, oh, my God, don't let me die," and he asked her if she believed in God. She said yes; he asked why. "Because I believe and my parents brought me up that way," she said. He reloaded, but didn't shoot again. She crawled away.

Schnurr's testimony has been unwavering since the start. After interviewing every person who survived the library to unravel discrepancies, investigators came to believe her story was accurate, and was probably the only such exchange about God with the killers.

So, apparently the other girl, who actually did suffer the incident, lived because she believed in God? Story gets more twisted by the moment...

DRFseven · 04-29-2002, 06:02 PM

Quote:

We are taught that all life is merely an arbitrary happenstance, accidentally occuring in some temporally distant prehistory in some theoretically ambiguous primordial soup's ooze. This inauthenticates any real relevance to life. Any pretense to meaning becomes a sham. This is the 'truth' our children are given.

So, do those who hold this opinion think we should, then, lie to our children and make up "meanings" for life?

04-28-2002, 09:06 PM	#14
SmashingIdols Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: USA Posts: 153	I am almost certain I read somewhere how these two believed intimately in hell, which would make them anything but atheists. I think there has been some confusion that atheists are people who worship satan, or don't like god, or any other scenario which implies they still believe in A God or A Heaven or A Hell, just disagree or protest the whole thing. I think he said "Do you believe in God?" before he shot her because he was demented and either believed he was scaring her, or playing god by somehow being the agent for her discovery of what is really true, rather than seeking her denial. He would have killed her either way. He was insane. BTW - I have seen some pretentious stuff on the web but the Jedi Council has me rolling on the floor. What a riot! [ April 28, 2002: Message edited by: SmashingIdols ]</p>

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04-28-2002, 08:33 PM	#11
Automaton Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 717	If they think atheism teaches life has no inherent value, then what does Original Sin teach?

04-28-2002, 08:41 PM	#12
Cutter Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,805	Ha! What rot! Atheism says "This is all that you get, make the most of it." Theism says "You don't get to the good stuff until you die." No wonder religious zealots are so prepared to snuff it.

04-28-2002, 08:48 PM	#13
Eudaimonist Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Sundsvall, Sweden Posts: 3,159	"Life has no authentic meaning." "There are no moral absolutes or imperatives." I disagree with both statements, and I'm an atheist. I wish those people at theforce.net would place the blame on the ethical doctrines that do espouse these statement, not on atheism.

04-28-2002, 10:41 PM	#15
Aquila ka Hecate Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Luna City Posts: 379	Just a small point also: <a href="http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/09/30/bernall/print.html" target="_blank">http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/09/30/bernall/print.html</a> (Cassie Bernall said no such thing, but has been turned into a marytr)

04-29-2002, 03:47 PM	#18
jdawg2 Regular Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Cedar Hill, TX USA Posts: 113	no, no, no... it was obviously the computer game, Doom.

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