Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Grumpy · 06-07-2002, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kookiejar:
...the Hebrew word "eretz" that was translated to mean "Earth" in the Bible can also mean "local area" or "local land" or just "land".

True enough, but that begs more questions. Like, in the time it takes to build a giant wooden ship, couldn't Noah & family have walked out of the Flood Zone to safety?

A local flood also doesn't make sense in context. Take Genesis 6:6 "And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth ('erets), and it grieved him at his heart."

Yes, it could mean the people of that particular land, but it sounds weird. And the word for "man," 'adam, generally means mankind (or Adam in particular).

More explicit is Gen. 6:13 "And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth."

First, this doesn't sound like the attitude of a guy who's ready to pull punches. Also, the word for "flesh," basar means all animals, or all mankind. (It apparently is also used as a euphemism for penis, FWIW.)

Of course, it can also mean animals in general. So we have a passage that, because of linguistic ambiguity, can mean God was pissed at particular people and wanted to destroy a single country, or he was pissed at all mankind and wanted to wipe out everything. Conveniently, the text is so muddy that we can't know for sure.

Ah, but there's the story of the boat stuck in a mountain. You don't get stuff like that from a river flood. I think the "local yokels" should throw in the towel.

Jayhawker Soule · 06-08-2002, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grumpy:
Ah, but there's the story of the boat stuck in a mountain. You don't get stuff like that from a river flood. I think the "local yokels" should throw in the towel.

I'll assume you're joking.

Grumpy · 06-08-2002, 07:16 AM

No, I'm not really joking. IMHO, the reader cannot escape the absurdity of a global flood by choosing to interpret the text as referring to a local (or regional) event. Sure, it may have been inspired by a real-life event which would have been smaller in scope (like the Black Sea hypothesis), but it seems clear that the narrative (at least in the common English translations I've seen) unquestionably refers to a worldwide catastrophe.

Jayhawker Soule · 06-08-2002, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grumpy:
Sure, it may have been inspired by a real-life event which would have been smaller in scope (like the Black Sea hypothesis), but it seems clear that the narrative (at least in the common English translations I've seen) unquestionably refers to a worldwide catastrophe.

... which is all that this 'local yokel' is asserting. Folk history, and subsequent myth, often involves exxagerations of 'mythical proportions'. Note, for example, the Merenptah Victory Stele which states in part:

Quote:

The princes are prostrate saying: "Shalom!"
Not one of the Nine Bows lifts his head:
Tjehenu is vanquished, Khatti at peace,
Canaan is captive with all woe.
Ashkelon is conquered, Gezer seized,
Yanoam made nonexistent;
Israel is wasted, bare of seed,
Khor is become a widow for Egypt.
All who roamed have been subdued.
By the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Banere-meramun,
Son of Re, Merenptah, Content with Maat,
Given life like Re every day.

[emphasis added -RD]

[ June 08, 2002: Message edited by: ReasonableDoubt ]

Bane · 06-10-2002, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Hi Bane,
the book is worth getting - it was a very interesting read.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

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06-08-2002, 07:16 AM	#23
Grumpy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Alaska, USA Posts: 1,535	No, I'm not really joking. IMHO, the reader cannot escape the absurdity of a global flood by choosing to interpret the text as referring to a local (or regional) event. Sure, it may have been inspired by a real-life event which would have been smaller in scope (like the Black Sea hypothesis), but it seems clear that the narrative (at least in the common English translations I've seen) unquestionably refers to a worldwide catastrophe.

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