ozero

I think it is very probable that there is at least a thing, possibly
a being, that is indistinguishable from any god described by
any religion. It would be the result of the natural tendency of
intelligent beings to find security, long life and intellectual
stimulation. It's already started with us (or is it that we are
in the situation already) by the research on connecting the brain
to electronic devices. Once some bioengineering processes are
resolved, we can expect people with spinal injury to walk, the
blind to see, and, eventually, an implant for all of us to do math.
Why stop there? Another implant and we can all speak every
language on earth. Next step is to add memory and computation
segments. Finally, we'll find that the biological brain is just too
useless and we'll leave it behind. Spared from the chains of
our enviroment, we'll be able to find security for our electronic
selves by joining together on a space ship to go to places where
we can live better at temperatures of superconductivity in
intergalactic, perhaps inter-universal space. While waiting the
eons to travel from one place to another, we'd have a virtual
world to keep us occupied. That virtual world would be controlled
by a central computer that would create the universe and our
place in it. It would be god. Not the same being as you'd find
in any religion, but indistinguishable from it. I think that it is
very unlikely that in the infinity of space/time, such a being
and situation does not exist. My question is: If we are in that
situation, how would we tell?

Mageth

Welcome to the board, ozero.

Sounds like you may have read Greg Egan's book Diaspora.

Hint: if you haven't, you'll find it in the Science Fiction section.

My question is: If we are in that situation, how would we tell?

My guess is that we couldn't; and as far as I'm concerned, for my personal existence, it really doesn't matter whether I'm truly flesh-and-blood or a "virtual" manifestation in a program running on some cosmic computer. Existence is the same for me either way, no?

Dexter_Jettster

So how would you classify life then? As a simple construct program that is looped into training programs?

---------------------------------

Neo, wake up!

Knock, knock!

Follow the white rabbit Neo.

---------------------------------

D_J

beyelzu

the op seems to be much like the old argument about subjective reality. but there is certainly no reason to believe that we are constructs in a virtual world so without evidence. It is a pointless assertion.

Silent Acorns

I'd like to know how anything in the OP relates to "scientific" and "probability".

Invader Tak

I'm already living in superconductivity temperatures, in Pittsburgh!

Brrr!

beastmaster

How would a computer that *I* created be "indistinguishable" from a god, now? Why would it be worthy of worship? Why would it matter if I believed in the computer or not?

ozero

The point is that there probably is a god, of sorts. Certainly not
the infinite one of many religions, but also more powerful than
many polytheistic religions. I certainly see no need to worship
or even acknowledge the existance of this thing, but I think I
am allowed to speculate about it. If this is the natural evolution
of intelligent life, then it does have some repercussions. If we are
as close to achieving this level as I think (within 100-200 yrs),
then SETI is probably a hopeless quest. What would be the
point of finding stupid little biological creatures that are so limited
in their intelligence. We certainly couldn't learn much useful from
them. Hmm, maybe their religion?
I think life can be classified as anything that can experience the
universe in some way. As far as I can tell we are all just programs
running on some biological computer. And, yeah, it is like the
Matrix, but why do we take such ideas and make monsters of
them? The number of neural inputs to the brain is not so great
that we couldn't create a complete virtual world in a few years.
We aren't all that complicated compared with what is possible.
Heck, we can only percieve a tiny fraction of the electromagnetic
spectrum. I think it'd be cool to be able to take in everything and
process it intelligently.
As to this being scientific or probable, the point is that such a
construct can be achieved, at least theortically, today. We are
very close to merging neurons with silicon circuitry, have already
done so in a petri dish. The logical progression is to take
advantage of this progress to prolong our lives and insure our
security. Or am I missing something? As to whether or not it
is possible to tell whether this life we live is real or memorex
is the question I was asking. What would the difference, if any,
be?
To Invader Tak: Sorry about your climatic conditions. It's a bit
cool here, too. I had to wear a long sleeve shirt when I went
fishing this evening. Why anyone would live above the 30th
parallel is beyond me. Ahh, it's good to be a Texan.

Violent Messiah

The 13th floor.

Well, I really couldn't tell if I were a biological computer program or just an imagination of a Divine Being. And I couldn't tell if the things I imagine are real as they are perceiving themselves making me their God. This question inevitably leads to the question of reality itself.

Wait a minute...I just had a thought, if there's no way of determining whether we are figments of imagination or just virtual realities - then we can't disprove the idea of a God making the imagination.

Anyway, any thoughts on this one....

http://forums.christiansunite.com/in...;threadid=2507

Thanks....

Jobar

Hi ozero, and welcome to the boards. I posted this link in VM's thread- it is very relevant to the topic here. Very complex, but a fun thread to read. J.