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View Poll Results: when does a human being have access to the protection of the laws of our land?
after conception 9 12.86%
3 months after conception 7 10.00%
6 months after conception 15 21.43%
9 months after conception 3 4.29%
after birth 33 47.14%
18 years after birth 3 4.29%
Voters: 70. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 07-14-2003, 08:13 AM   #21
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I think that abortion is a traumatic thing for the woman no matter how far along the fetus is. As far as the morality of abortion, I don't feel it is moral after the second tri-mester, unless the mom's life is jeopordized. Abortion for birth control is wrong also.

A pregnancy for me could end my life, so I would have to abort if a pregnancy ever came about and I would. I think it would be hard to overcome, but I would and I would not feel like a murderer for it. My sister-in-law will surly die if she is ever pregnant again, but she says that she will not abort, if a pregnancy ever occurs, and die with her child. To me, that is wrong.

Perhaps the morning after pills should be made more readily available to women of all ages so that abortion would not be in such demand..., but many pro-lifers would also say that is murdering a baby, because a zygote to them is the same as a baby.
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Old 07-14-2003, 08:18 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Stewart
What entities are you talking about when you say 'human beings' and what do you think "the inherent right to life" gives such entities?
Members of the species you, I, blacks and homosexuals are a member of.

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It isn't clear that the SCOTUS disagrees with you here.
Of course they technically agree that human beings have the right to life. To work around that, they drew an arbitrary line at three months after conception on the far side of which they presumed to declare that a human being lacks that right.

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Clarification, please! Does allowing that capital punishment is constitutional mean that the SCOTUS thinks that certain criminals have no inherent right to life.
I don't know what SCOTUS thinks, but murderers forfeit that right by virtue of the fact they deny it to others.

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Once again, they didn't do what you said they did and they can't do it with respect to blacks and gays either.
At one time, blacks weren't considered fully human. Why couldn't SCOTUS turn back the clock and do to them what it did to fetuses, were it of a mind to do so? Answer: fetuses won't riot in the streets.
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Old 07-14-2003, 09:08 AM   #23
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Originally posted by excreationist
Does that mean it has the same rights as an animal? i.e. if you think it is suffering too much you can just "put it down", etc?
In my opinion, yes... As I said, I realize that this is not a popular view.
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Old 07-14-2003, 09:16 AM   #24
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Many here have influenced my opinion on the human status of a fetus. I believe that while a fetus is definetly a living being, it is not developed enough to be considered a human being until 3 months into the pregnancy.
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Old 07-14-2003, 10:24 AM   #25
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Originally posted by Vylo
Many here have influenced my opinion on the human status of a fetus. I believe that while a fetus is definetly a living being, it is not developed enough to be considered a human being until 3 months into the pregnancy.
And just why would that be?
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Old 07-14-2003, 11:27 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by fatherphil
after conception you end up having something genetically distinct from both parents regardless of its vulnerability to harm and sudden destruction.

also, answer this in a moral sense outside of the current court rulings we live under because history has shown that the courts can not always be relied on to do what is "right".
After mutation you have something genetically distinct from it's parent. I haven't heard of anyone having moral problems about killing cancer, though.
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Old 07-14-2003, 11:30 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Loren Pechtel
After mutation you have something genetically distinct from it's parent. I haven't heard of anyone having moral problems about killing cancer, though.
It really is a damn shame that the rules prevent me from using the appropriate adjectives to describe the intellectual content of this statement.
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Old 07-14-2003, 12:38 PM   #28
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Like you've ever cared about intellectual content, mr-I'll-assume-all-the-facts-not-in-evidence-I-want.
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Old 07-14-2003, 03:14 PM   #29
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Originally posted by blondegoddess
As far as the morality of abortion, I don't feel it is moral after the second tri-mester, unless the mom's life is jeopordized.
What about the fetus's life and well-being? It is possible for a defect in the fetus that is incompatible with life to be discovered this late into the pregnancy. A woman may find out that the fetus she's carrying will (if it even survives to be born) live few hours or a few days and then die. The baby will never leave the hospital. It will never get to be held. It will be on live support for a short time and then die. Should this woman be allowed to choose to abort rather than put herself, the rest of her family and her infant through that trauma? Her life is not at risk in this scenario, but the baby will surely die.

In the late 60s my aunt had a son, David. David was born with a severe heart defect that could not be treated at the time. When he was born, they gave him to her to take home and told her he was going to die. David died little by little over the course of nearly a year. He lived in pain and got weaker and weaker. Her 2 other young children got to watch him die, got to watch him starve because he didn't have the strength to eat. He never had a good day in his life, not one. If she had found out about his condition when she was 7 months pregnant, should she have been allowed to abort to spare him that short rotten life and to spare herself and her young children having to watch it?
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Old 07-14-2003, 03:26 PM   #30
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if the day to day occurence of abortions were defined by the extreme situations postulated, i seriously doubt it would be a great matter of debate for our society. as for mutant rights, that's what the x-men series is all about. i don't think they would appreciate the identification and abortion of their kind.

one glitch is viability, right? is not a fertilized embryo viable once a suitable host is devised?
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