Freethought & Rationalism Archive

fatherphil · 07-13-2003, 03:21 PM

at what point does a human life begin that has access to the protection of laws of our land?

Bob Stewart · 07-13-2003, 03:33 PM

Quote:

at what point does a human life begin that has access to the protection of laws of our land?

Hasn't the SCOTUS answered this question in the Roe v Wade decision? Not before the beginning of the third trimester, and after that point it will depend on what compelling interest in protecting a fetus a particular state can demonstrate.

Bob Stewart

Daleth · 07-13-2003, 03:54 PM

Phil,

You've asked 2 different questions here.

1. at what point does a human life begin that has access to the protection of laws of our land?

2. when does a human being have access to the protection of the laws of our land?

These aren't the same, as 1 focuses more on when life begins and 2 focuses more on when protection under the law begins. I'm not sure if either is what you meant, because both use a present tense form of "to have". Since that puts the questions into the realm of current law and not what we think the law ought to be, it's probably not what you were aiming for at all. It leaves no room for a poll, as it's just a matter of knowing the laws.

Dal

Loren Pechtel · 07-13-2003, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fatherphil
at what point does a human life begin that has access to the protection of laws of our land?

Human life has not begun. Life is a continium since it's earliest days about 4 billion years ago. It began then, not now.

yguy · 07-13-2003, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob Stewart
Hasn't the SCOTUS answered this question in the Roe v Wade decision?

SCOTUS has the power to grant or deny humanity to a class of living beings?

Bob Stewart · 07-13-2003, 04:35 PM

Quote:

SCOTUS has the power to grant or deny humanity to a class of living beings?

Well, it did this in the sense of denying a certain legal protection to the pre-third trimester living human fetus. Is there a legitimate challenge to this exercise of power? If so, what is it?

Bob Stewart

Amen-Moses · 07-13-2003, 04:51 PM

Until someone is actually born they are not a "someone".

Of course from the beginning of the third trimester there is enough evidence to say that they are a "potential someone" so there is a grey area which only current cultural norms can decide on.

Amen-Moses

yguy · 07-13-2003, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob Stewart
Well, it did this in the sense of denying a certain legal protection to the pre-third trimester living human fetus. Is there a legitimate challenge to this exercise of power? If so, what is it?

Bob Stewart

If they can declare fetuses non-human, why can't they declare blacks non-human?

yguy · 07-13-2003, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amen-Moses
Until someone is actually born they are not a "someone".

This is not an established fact, any more than it was in Copernicus' time that the Earth was the center of the universe.

meritocrat · 07-13-2003, 05:19 PM

You question makes no sense.

So a newborn baby has no protection under law?

View Poll Results: when does a human being have access to the protection of the laws of our land?
after conception	9	12.86%
3 months after conception	7	10.00%
6 months after conception	15	21.43%
9 months after conception	3	4.29%
after birth	33	47.14%
18 years after birth	3	4.29%
Voters: 70. You may not vote on this poll

07-13-2003, 03:21 PM	#1
fatherphil Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: burbank Posts: 758	life begins at what point? at what point does a human life begin that has access to the protection of laws of our land?

07-13-2003, 03:54 PM	#3
Daleth Regular Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: NYC, 5th floor, on the left Posts: 372	Re: life begins at what point? Phil, You've asked 2 different questions here. 1. at what point does a human life begin that has access to the protection of laws of our land? 2. when does a human being have access to the protection of the laws of our land? These aren't the same, as 1 focuses more on when life begins and 2 focuses more on when protection under the law begins. I'm not sure if either is what you meant, because both use a present tense form of "to have". Since that puts the questions into the realm of current law and not what we think the law ought to be, it's probably not what you were aiming for at all. It leaves no room for a poll, as it's just a matter of knowing the laws. Dal

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07-13-2003, 04:51 PM	#7
Amen-Moses Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Portsmouth, England Posts: 4,652	Until someone is actually born they are not a "someone". Of course from the beginning of the third trimester there is enough evidence to say that they are a "potential someone" so there is a grey area which only current cultural norms can decide on. Amen-Moses

07-13-2003, 05:19 PM	#10
meritocrat Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: England Posts: 2,608	You question makes no sense. So a newborn baby has no protection under law?

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