jdawg2

so um...if he's dead who's in charge of heaven now? Who is the one that Christians pray to?

and if he didn't really die (which is what the resurrection story seems to say), what exactly did "He" sacrifice? How exactly does a supposedly omnipotent, infinite diety "sacrifice" anything?? That's like Bill Gates "sacrificing" a hundred bucks to someone on the street; it's not like Mr. Gates really lost anything...

kwigibo

it's not even like sacrificing a hundred bucks, more like ten minutes of your time. As far as the story goes, jesus apparently took a three day nap then went to heaven, oh lord you sacrificed so much for us

Euromutt

Well, getting crucified is pretty painful, but yeah, the sacrifice of "dying for our sins" is more than a little diminished if the guy gets up again afterward. And of course, since God is supposedly omniscient, the old boy knew that was going to happen in advance.
(The lad himself, of course, did not know - "Eli, Eli, lamasthani" and all that.)

kwigibo

yeah but to top it off, he only got like 1/10 of a proper crucifixion anyway. Also, why wouldn't he want to be crucified, in the immortal words of David Cross, "That made him!"

Panta Pei

Details...details

Don't bother the xtians with blatant and heretical reason <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

That's why it is called "faith".

"Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation."
- George H. Smith

Megatron

Ahhhhh... one of my very favorite quotes. I don't think it could be said better. Ever notice how so many xians mourn their faith instead of celebrating it?

IvanK

Actually Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani, one of only two passages Mark presents in the Aramaic and then translates into Greek. Convincing enough for me to believe that they're as near to original utterances as we're likely to get. And a terrifyingly haunting thing for the Messiah to say. Try reading the story in Mark as if for the first time, not knowing there's a Ressurection in the offing. Sends chills up your spine.

The point of the original post was the genesis for a book by Thomas J.J. Altheiser, The Gospel of Christian Atheism, in which he argues that all of the Father became flesh in the Son, when the Son died on the Cross so did the Father but the Holy Spirit then came into being to guide mankind on the right path. A different take on the "God is dead" business and a book that played an important part in my own "conversion" to freethought.

Amos

Good point but also notice that the Catholic Church knows the "Church Truimphant." We have "the Church Millitant," "the Church Suffering" and "the Church Triumphant" to represent the tree stages of our faith journey. We have Easter, Assumption and Coronation to prove that there is victory in the end and if others do not recognize this there is no victory possible while alive here on earth.

KweschunThEAnserz

Well since God is omnicient, all powerful, etc.. ( I'm not going to debate these descriptions of God lets just assume this true for the sake of this argument) what can he possibly give up? Well, as humans, whats the most we can give? Our lives. Well, since God can't exactly die for us since that goes against his immortal nature, he came down as a Man to express this sacrifice. The most one can give to our understanding is Death, and thats what God gave up the only way he could.
now the important part is not what God lost as a result of this action, but the action itself because we as humans know of no greater sacrifice.
Well thats a way I look at it....I'm a first time poster, be gentle...

Mageth

Yeah, he gave up his life for, what, 48 hours or so? Then came back as SuperManGod, able to walk through doors, transport himself great distances, and beam himself up into heaven? Now if he'd really died (as in "God Kills Self to Save World - We're on our own now!") that would be worth talking about.