Freethought & Rationalism Archive

David Mathews · 06-28-2002, 05:39 AM

Hello Everyone,

Throughout my life I have not witnesses a single event of persecution directed at atheists or atheism. I have seen no evidence that the United States government persecuting atheists, nor do I know of any religious organizations which target atheists for persecution.

I suppose that this means that atheists in America are free to not believe in God without any fear of oppression or repression. It would seem to me that atheists do in fact have freedom from religion.

Do atheists on this board believe that they are persecuted for their atheism?

In what ways are you persecuted?

Sincerely,

David Mathews
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/dmathew1" target="_blank">David Mathews' Home Page</a>

ashibaka · 06-28-2002, 05:47 AM

I haven't been, as I live in a liberal state, but I have a good story of someone who has.

<a href="http://www.morons.org/search.php?SEARCH=isabella" target="_blank">Isabella High School</a> (not in any particular order, start with the "Central Alabama School")

[ June 28, 2002: Message edited by: ashibaka ]

Jamie_L · 06-28-2002, 05:48 AM

We are not persecuted, per se. However, we are one of the last minorities against which it is acceptible to publicly display bigotry. No government official would dare malign jews, muslims, blacks, gays, etc. as openly and visciuosly as we are denounced.

Jamie

MrDarwin · 06-28-2002, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David Mathews:
Throughout my life I have not witnesses a single event of persecution directed at atheists or atheism. I have seen no evidence that the United States government persecuting atheists, nor do I know of any religious organizations which target atheists for persecution.

What would you consider "persecution"?

[ June 28, 2002: Message edited by: MrDarwin ]

Bill Snedden · 06-28-2002, 05:58 AM

Define "persecution." For me the word indicates some type of systematic targeting and pursuit. While there's certainly a plethora of Establishment Clause violations in Federal and State law (including State Constitutions that still exclude atheists from holding state offices), I chalk these up to ignorance. I don't see any more systematic attempt to sever atheists from their rights than I do for Christians.

Discrimination and prejudice, on the other hand, are freely practiced. Atheists are one of the last groups that it seems to be okay to hate. All one need do is turn on the television and listen to the man on the street. You constantly hear statements like, "it's just some whiny atheist" or "all these atheists should just leave the country." Substitute "jew" for "atheist" and perhaps you'll see it then.

Discrimination and prejudice are certainly not limited to atheists, and I have definitely seen examples of the same applied to Christians, however, the general public seems much more accepting of the idea that atheists are "second-class" citizens. Even the President of the U.S. (G.H.W. Bush) felt comfortable enough with maligning atheists to declare that he didn't think that they should be considered citizens. If that isn't a sign of an extremely high level of discrimination, then I don't know what is.

Regards,

Bill Snedden

[ June 28, 2002: Message edited by: Bill Snedden ]

enigma555 · 06-28-2002, 06:13 AM

Quote:

No, I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

George Bush, Sr.
News Conference
August 27th, 1987

Try replacing "Atheists" with any other racial or political group and think what would happen to his political career...

Amazon · 06-28-2002, 06:51 AM

Would you consider vandalism of property and death threats to atheists persecution?

How about letters to the editor in newspapers that tell us to leave the country? Not surprisingly, these letters never seem to be refuted in later editions of the same paper. I'm sure it's not because nobody wrote in to protest.

There are many first-hand stories like these on this forum.

Toto · 06-28-2002, 07:52 AM

The president of Atheists United in Los Angeles was laid off from a job because she did not go to the daily prayer meetings that her boss held. Do you consider that persecution? (She could have sued, but might have had a hard time proving it, and found another job anyway.)

Ray K · 06-28-2002, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David Mathews:
Hello Everyone,

Throughout my life I have not witnesses a single event of persecution directed at atheists or atheism. [/URL]

Hello Dave,
That is a fine question.

It is illegal for me to run for an elected office in the state I live in because I am an atheist.

Is that good enough for you?

Vorkosigan · 06-28-2002, 02:11 PM

Hi Dave. In about nine states, it is still illegal for atheists to hold public office.

If atheists are not abused, why are so many of us closeted?

I have once experienced serious problems with being an atheist. A prof and students ganged up on me in class at a university. I changed my major when I discovered the whole department was fundie. This is not true of all fundies; another fundie nut prof in the English department was scrupulously fair with grades.

Just look around and listen to the vitriol, David.

Vorkosigan

06-28-2002, 05:39 AM	#1
David Mathews Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: st. petersburg Posts: 622	Persecution of Atheism in the U.S. Hello Everyone, Throughout my life I have not witnesses a single event of persecution directed at atheists or atheism. I have seen no evidence that the United States government persecuting atheists, nor do I know of any religious organizations which target atheists for persecution. I suppose that this means that atheists in America are free to not believe in God without any fear of oppression or repression. It would seem to me that atheists do in fact have freedom from religion. Do atheists on this board believe that they are persecuted for their atheism? In what ways are you persecuted? Sincerely, David Mathews <a href="http://www.geocities.com/dmathew1" target="_blank">David Mathews' Home Page</a>

06-28-2002, 05:47 AM	#2
ashibaka Regular Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Cloudy Water Posts: 443	I haven't been, as I live in a liberal state, but I have a good story of someone who has. <a href="http://www.morons.org/search.php?SEARCH=isabella" target="_blank">Isabella High School</a> (not in any particular order, start with the "Central Alabama School") [ June 28, 2002: Message edited by: ashibaka ]</p>

06-28-2002, 05:58 AM	#5
Bill Snedden Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,597	Define "persecution." For me the word indicates some type of systematic targeting and pursuit. While there's certainly a plethora of Establishment Clause violations in Federal and State law (including State Constitutions that still exclude atheists from holding state offices), I chalk these up to ignorance. I don't see any more systematic attempt to sever atheists from their rights than I do for Christians. Discrimination and prejudice, on the other hand, are freely practiced. Atheists are one of the last groups that it seems to be okay to hate. All one need do is turn on the television and listen to the man on the street. You constantly hear statements like, "it's just some whiny atheist" or "all these atheists should just leave the country." Substitute "jew" for "atheist" and perhaps you'll see it then. Discrimination and prejudice are certainly not limited to atheists, and I have definitely seen examples of the same applied to Christians, however, the general public seems much more accepting of the idea that atheists are "second-class" citizens. Even the President of the U.S. (G.H.W. Bush) felt comfortable enough with maligning atheists to declare that he didn't think that they should be considered citizens. If that isn't a sign of an extremely high level of discrimination, then I don't know what is. Regards, Bill Snedden [ June 28, 2002: Message edited by: Bill Snedden ]</p>

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06-28-2002, 05:48 AM	#3
Jamie_L Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: U.S. Posts: 2,565	We are not persecuted, per se. However, we are one of the last minorities against which it is acceptible to publicly display bigotry. No government official would dare malign jews, muslims, blacks, gays, etc. as openly and visciuosly as we are denounced. Jamie

06-28-2002, 06:51 AM	#7
Amazon Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Chicago area Posts: 210	Would you consider vandalism of property and death threats to atheists persecution? How about letters to the editor in newspapers that tell us to leave the country? Not surprisingly, these letters never seem to be refuted in later editions of the same paper. I'm sure it's not because nobody wrote in to protest. There are many first-hand stories like these on this forum.

06-28-2002, 07:52 AM	#8
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	The president of Atheists United in Los Angeles was laid off from a job because she did not go to the daily prayer meetings that her boss held. Do you consider that persecution? (She could have sued, but might have had a hard time proving it, and found another job anyway.)

06-28-2002, 02:11 PM	#10
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	Hi Dave. In about nine states, it is still illegal for atheists to hold public office. If atheists are not abused, why are so many of us closeted? I have once experienced serious problems with being an atheist. A prof and students ganged up on me in class at a university. I changed my major when I discovered the whole department was fundie. This is not true of all fundies; another fundie nut prof in the English department was scrupulously fair with grades. Just look around and listen to the vitriol, David. Vorkosigan

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