Freethought & Rationalism Archive

AdamWho · 06-09-2002, 05:21 PM

99Percent:

I would disagree; logic is not independent of beings. If all living beings (in the universe) ceased to exist then the concepts of logic (and all abstract concepts) would be gone too, in this scenario it wouldn't make sense to say: "Reality is that which is logically persistent." Who is there to evaluate logical persistence? Yet a material universe would still exist. Maybe I am missing you point, but don't think that reality can be dependant on abstract entities.

Answerer · 06-10-2002, 04:06 AM

Wow, sound like a metaphysics debate to me. Anyway, I don't think the definition of reality is absolute. For instance, we don't even know if spacetime 'truly' exists and much a less our religious concept of 'soul'. I think the movie 'matrix'( I believe most of you have watched it) had shown and given us a good understanding of our concept of reality. As it had shown, what we can sense, see, touch, feel, taste, smell or hear are not necessary 'real', but just because we have contact with our surroundings, we tend to believe that our environment has to be real.
For now, I feel that humans still don't have a proper definition of 'reality'.

phaedrus · 06-10-2002, 04:39 AM

Quote:

One of the benefits of getting rid of the notion of the intrinsic nature of reality is that you get rid of the notion that quarks and human rights differ in 'ontological status.' This, in turn, helps you reject the suggestion that natural science should serve as a paradigm for the rest of culture, and in particular that philosophical progress consists in philosophers getting more scientific. - Richard Rorty : Truth and Progress

Starspun · 06-10-2002, 10:32 AM

Unless a person has a brain condition like schizophrenia(sp?), we all live in the same physical reality. A rock is a rock, a planet a planet, a wagon is a wagon. Why would this merit any discussion, other than for the fun of it?
Emotional reality would be different for everyone, does that count?

John Page · 06-10-2002, 01:02 PM

Reality is described through subjective experience, <a href="http://www.reconciliationism.org/reality.htm" target="_blank">here's mine</a>.

Our subjective experiences being somewhat similar, we can relate. If not, then I am from a different planet.

Hail to the great Prophet Zarquon.

jenn · 06-10-2002, 01:18 PM

I aplogize, it was more of a metaphysics question. I guess what I was trying to get at was this. If reality is something that exists only from one observer to the next, then how do we know we are not in some type of dream state from another existence.Have you ever awoke from a dream and seen yourself lying in the bed?How do we know what is real. What we observe we say is real but in reality, if there is one, we know nothing. I am laughing as I type, I hope you are too. It is a deep subject for deep minds....

WJ · 06-10-2002, 01:25 PM

"If reality is something that exists only from one observer to the next, then how do we know we are not in some type of dream state from another existence."

Ideally, what kind of reality is most appealing to you?

Walrus

jenn · 06-10-2002, 01:32 PM

Walrus, I take it that this is some sort of trick question..hahaha
It depends on which reality I am observing at the time.

Starspun · 06-10-2002, 01:40 PM

Jenn,
I dont know what you are smoking, but PASS THAT SHIT!

John Page · 06-10-2002, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jenn:
[QB....and seen yourself lying in the bed?How do we know what is real. What we observe we say is real but in reality, if there is one, we know nothing. I am laughing as I type, I hope you are too. It is a deep subject for deep minds....

[/QB]

Jenn:

I can relate - It's when you wake from that dream-like state and look at yourself in the mirror, laughing uncontrollably, you know there must be a reality because you never would have imagined the sight before you. And then the scientist in you kicks in and you want to measure it (or them, depending on where you're coming from) and you discover reality is never quite what it seems....

Cheers, John

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06-09-2002, 05:21 PM	#11
AdamWho Contributor Join Date: May 2001 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 13,389	99Percent: I would disagree; logic is not independent of beings. If all living beings (in the universe) ceased to exist then the concepts of logic (and all abstract concepts) would be gone too, in this scenario it wouldn't make sense to say: "Reality is that which is logically persistent." Who is there to evaluate logical persistence? Yet a material universe would still exist. Maybe I am missing you point, but don't think that reality can be dependant on abstract entities.

06-10-2002, 04:06 AM	#12
Answerer Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 3,956	Wow, sound like a metaphysics debate to me. Anyway, I don't think the definition of reality is absolute. For instance, we don't even know if spacetime 'truly' exists and much a less our religious concept of 'soul'. I think the movie 'matrix'( I believe most of you have watched it) had shown and given us a good understanding of our concept of reality. As it had shown, what we can sense, see, touch, feel, taste, smell or hear are not necessary 'real', but just because we have contact with our surroundings, we tend to believe that our environment has to be real. For now, I feel that humans still don't have a proper definition of 'reality'.

06-10-2002, 10:32 AM	#14
Starspun Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 334	Unless a person has a brain condition like schizophrenia(sp?), we all live in the same physical reality. A rock is a rock, a planet a planet, a wagon is a wagon. Why would this merit any discussion, other than for the fun of it? Emotional reality would be different for everyone, does that count?

06-10-2002, 01:02 PM	#15
John Page Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: US Posts: 5,495	Reality is described through subjective experience, <a href="http://www.reconciliationism.org/reality.htm" target="_blank">here's mine</a>. Our subjective experiences being somewhat similar, we can relate. If not, then I am from a different planet. Hail to the great Prophet Zarquon.

06-10-2002, 01:18 PM	#16
jenn Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 57	I aplogize, it was more of a metaphysics question. I guess what I was trying to get at was this. If reality is something that exists only from one observer to the next, then how do we know we are not in some type of dream state from another existence.Have you ever awoke from a dream and seen yourself lying in the bed?How do we know what is real. What we observe we say is real but in reality, if there is one, we know nothing. I am laughing as I type, I hope you are too. It is a deep subject for deep minds....

06-10-2002, 01:25 PM	#17
WJ Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 812	"If reality is something that exists only from one observer to the next, then how do we know we are not in some type of dream state from another existence." Ideally, what kind of reality is most appealing to you? Walrus

06-10-2002, 01:32 PM	#18
jenn Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 57	Walrus, I take it that this is some sort of trick question..hahaha It depends on which reality I am observing at the time.

06-10-2002, 01:40 PM	#19
Starspun Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 334	Jenn, I dont know what you are smoking, but PASS THAT SHIT!

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