Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Boro Nut · 09-17-2002, 08:10 AM

Can anyone tell me why nicking apples was originally a sin, but was dropped from the commandments? My son asked me and I couldn't remember the answer. I think it may have to do with climbing over walls to get at them or something, but admit I am a bit vague. To be on the safe side he has agreed not to go hoggy raiding untill he can be sure the worlds population will not be eternally damned as a result. Help anyone?

Boro Nut

Vinnie · 09-19-2002, 12:52 AM

How did you obtain this knowledge? I didn't know it was an apple?

Vinnie

atrahasis · 09-19-2002, 01:51 AM

According to the sumerians, the original sin was noise!!!

offa · 09-19-2002, 07:28 AM

offa; The Gentiles ("Many") used the Jubilee Calendar. This calendar was a solar calendar with a 364 day year with a 17 1/2 day intercalation every 14 years. The Jews ("All") used a lunar calendar with 12 months of 29 1/2 days. This calendar had a 354 day year with a 10 day intercalation each autumn. The Persians (Babylonians) used a similar calendar and they worshipped the moon-god "Sin". When Jesus converted the "woman at the well" she committed "adultery" by changing her religion. When Jesus said, "he who hath not committed sin, let him throw the first stone" he was talking to his disciples who previously used the lunar calendar. When he told the woman to "sin no more" he was telling her to use the Jubilee Calendar. BTW, Jesus had 12 disciples and the year had 12 months. John the Baptist had 29 1/2 disciples and his months had 29 1/2 days. He had a woman as one of his disciples and a woman was counted as 1/2 a man. The woman at the well was that disciple. She was the wife of Simon Magus (number 6 representing 6 husbands) and he had replaced Jonathan Annas (who had replaced John the Baptist). Simon Magus is known in Scripture as Lazarus.

simian · 09-19-2002, 07:43 AM

As an amateur atheologist, here's my take: Doing something "original" implies you are doing something unique. Thus an "origian sin" would be committing a sin that either a) nobody else has committed before, or b) committing the sin in a way nobody else has. So, as stealing apples has been done before, the world is completely safe on a). If your son is not particularly brilliant, then b) is not a problem either. If your son is brilliant, I suggest you keep him from stealing apples, but still put him under an apple tree, in the hopes of apples falling on his head. I am not completely convinced by Newton's description of this so-called "gravity." The worst that happens is that your son gets hit on the head too many times and becomes too daft for b) to be a problem any more.

As for why it is not in the 10 commandments, everybody knows you should not steal apples. The 10 were for more important things, like making sure everybody knew women wer property and slavery was A-OK.

Simian

Grumpy · 09-19-2002, 01:49 PM

"Original" is probably understood slightly differently by anyone who subscribes to the doctrine, and also by many who don't.

I take it there are at least three ways to read "original": The first sin (the same way that Pete Best was the Beatles' original drummer); sin pertaining to mankind's origins; and sin inherently tied to sexual reproduction (every person's origins).

Best to be clear which one we're talking about -- especially since none of them are explicitly described in any scripture, least of all Genesis.

09-19-2002, 06:45 PM

"Original sin" is not the same as "sin originally."

Original sin makes reference to our capacity to sin and to overcome this redemption is possible and needed.

Original sin is the isolation of our conscious mind (TOK) wherein we find pleasure and joy while we are banned from Eden (removed from the Tree of Life).

Original sin cannot be forgiven but must be annihilated and the concept sin was conjectured to make this possible.

Autonemesis · 09-19-2002, 07:39 PM

The way I understand it, if it weren't for A&E eating the fruit, we'd be in Eden still running around naked and screwing in blissful ignorance. People would reproduce kind of by accident, just like people would commit all kinds of sins sort of by accident. Without any knowledge of consequences, there can't be intent and therefore no sin, because they are innocent due to their ignorance of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. People couldn't sin because they couldn't know right from wrong. Everybody who was born would live forever a life of guiltless hedonism, I guess.

Hey thanks a lot, Adam and Eve!

09-17-2002, 08:10 AM	#1
Boro Nut Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Middlesbrough, England Posts: 3,909	Original Sin Can anyone tell me why nicking apples was originally a sin, but was dropped from the commandments? My son asked me and I couldn't remember the answer. I think it may have to do with climbing over walls to get at them or something, but admit I am a bit vague. To be on the safe side he has agreed not to go hoggy raiding untill he can be sure the worlds population will not be eternally damned as a result. Help anyone? Boro Nut

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09-19-2002, 12:52 AM	#2
Vinnie Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Waterbury, Ct, Usa Posts: 6,523	How did you obtain this knowledge? I didn't know it was an apple? Vinnie

09-19-2002, 01:51 AM	#3
atrahasis Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: South of Sahara Posts: 216	According to the sumerians, the original sin was noise!!!

09-19-2002, 07:28 AM	#4
offa Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Monroeville, Ohio, USA Posts: 440	offa; The Gentiles ("Many") used the Jubilee Calendar. This calendar was a solar calendar with a 364 day year with a 17 1/2 day intercalation every 14 years. The Jews ("All") used a lunar calendar with 12 months of 29 1/2 days. This calendar had a 354 day year with a 10 day intercalation each autumn. The Persians (Babylonians) used a similar calendar and they worshipped the moon-god "Sin". When Jesus converted the "woman at the well" she committed "adultery" by changing her religion. When Jesus said, "he who hath not committed sin, let him throw the first stone" he was talking to his disciples who previously used the lunar calendar. When he told the woman to "sin no more" he was telling her to use the Jubilee Calendar. BTW, Jesus had 12 disciples and the year had 12 months. John the Baptist had 29 1/2 disciples and his months had 29 1/2 days. He had a woman as one of his disciples and a woman was counted as 1/2 a man. The woman at the well was that disciple. She was the wife of Simon Magus (number 6 representing 6 husbands) and he had replaced Jonathan Annas (who had replaced John the Baptist). Simon Magus is known in Scripture as Lazarus.

09-19-2002, 07:43 AM	#5
simian Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 1,924	As an amateur atheologist, here's my take: Doing something "original" implies you are doing something unique. Thus an "origian sin" would be committing a sin that either a) nobody else has committed before, or b) committing the sin in a way nobody else has. So, as stealing apples has been done before, the world is completely safe on a). If your son is not particularly brilliant, then b) is not a problem either. If your son is brilliant, I suggest you keep him from stealing apples, but still put him under an apple tree, in the hopes of apples falling on his head. I am not completely convinced by Newton's description of this so-called "gravity." The worst that happens is that your son gets hit on the head too many times and becomes too daft for b) to be a problem any more. As for why it is not in the 10 commandments, everybody knows you should not steal apples. The 10 were for more important things, like making sure everybody knew women wer property and slavery was A-OK. Simian

09-19-2002, 01:49 PM	#6
Grumpy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Alaska, USA Posts: 1,535	"Original" is probably understood slightly differently by anyone who subscribes to the doctrine, and also by many who don't. I take it there are at least three ways to read "original": The first sin (the same way that Pete Best was the Beatles' original drummer); sin pertaining to mankind's origins; and sin inherently tied to sexual reproduction (every person's origins). Best to be clear which one we're talking about -- especially since none of them are explicitly described in any scripture, least of all Genesis.

09-19-2002, 06:45 PM	#7
Amos Guest Posts: n/a	"Original sin" is not the same as "sin originally." Original sin makes reference to our capacity to sin and to overcome this redemption is possible and needed. Original sin is the isolation of our conscious mind (TOK) wherein we find pleasure and joy while we are banned from Eden (removed from the Tree of Life). Original sin cannot be forgiven but must be annihilated and the concept sin was conjectured to make this possible.

09-19-2002, 07:39 PM	#8
Autonemesis Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: I've left FRDB for good, due to new WI&P policy Posts: 12,048	The way I understand it, if it weren't for A&E eating the fruit, we'd be in Eden still running around naked and screwing in blissful ignorance. People would reproduce kind of by accident, just like people would commit all kinds of sins sort of by accident. Without any knowledge of consequences, there can't be intent and therefore no sin, because they are innocent due to their ignorance of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. People couldn't sin because they couldn't know right from wrong. Everybody who was born would live forever a life of guiltless hedonism, I guess. Hey thanks a lot, Adam and Eve!

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