Sole Controller

I am not one to be confused by much, however this has confused me for quite some time. I hear people talk of Xianity and catholicism as though they were as different as Islam and Hinduism. What is the underlying difference that causes people to make these discrepencies in the two. I always labeled them all, catholics, protestants, etc. as Xians. What are the differences in them, besides the obvious ones, what are the differences in their bibles, and where am I going wrong here if I am indeed wrong? Please someone help me with this. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Pandora

Catholicism is a branch of Christianity. It can then be divided into other denominations - the main two being Roman Catholicism and Anglo Catholicism (Anglican church and CofE).

When people refer to Catholics they normally mean the Roman Catholic Church.

There are quite a lot of differences between the RC and Protestant churches. The pope, worship of the Virgin Mary, loads of saints, indulgences, confession and penances, the eucharist is not symbolic but actually becomes the blood and the body. There are probably lots more - best bet: Ask Amos.

His point of view will be enlightening, but not neccessarily comprehensible!




Hurrah, I've finally worked out how to post smilies. javascript: x()
Well, perhaps not.
[ March 21, 2002: Message edited by: Pandora ]

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Amos

I would say that, at least by definiton, Catholics are Catholic and at best are Christians-in-becoming. Catholicism as a religion must be seen as a "means to an end" and the end of Catholicism is Christhood, which is a state of being in itself (hence, no temple in the New Jerusalem).

There is many things to add here and one of them is baptism into Catholicism when sacramentally Christ is imputed into the mind of the believer and this is probably the reason for your confusion.

In this sense Catholicism is very much like Judaism and both Jews and Catholics await the coming of Christ into their own life. The Jews await the first coming and the Catholics await the second coming because Catholics recognize Jesus as the Jew who showed them the way through the purgation period and into heaven (Jesus died for the children of Israel because they got lost during their purgation period and died nonetheless). If Catholics don't get lost and do enter heaven their religion will have served its purpose and they will no longer be Catholic, just as Jesus the Jew was no longer a Jew when he became a Christian.

That is what makes Catholicism a means to the end which now also means that Christianity in pure form cannot be part of Catholicism anymore than it is part of Judaism or there would be temples in the New Jerusalem and sin would be allowed in heaven-- because slavery to a Law is at the heart of every religion.

Protestants do not agree with this and carve an immage of salvation into their own mind in which they think they have salvation and must actually maintian this image and it is not until they die before they can let go of this image.

No, they are not different as Islam and Hinduism and both Islam and Hinduism will have their own kind of protestant movement to deal with.

The difference between Catholics and protestants is somewhat blurred in N.America because of the protestant influence upon Catholics and so what I write may not be as obvious as it is supposed to be. This distinction is very clear in protestant born again circles who argue that Catholics are not saved according to their image of salvation and subsequently try to save them according to their method.

The distinction is very clear between fundy protestants such as Baptists or Lutherans and traditional Catholics.

Amos

daemon

As usual, Amos makes no sense. I am becoming more and more convinced that he is Orz.

Anyway, I just wanted to chime in with a little note that I believe may be the official Catholic doctrine on Christianity--according to the Church, Catholics are obviously Christians because all Christians are Catholics! They may not accept the authority of the Pope, and have various heretical ideas about relgion, but this does not stop them from simply being fallen members of the fold.

I always imagined saying such to a serious fundy would be a good way of seeing someone throw an apoplectic fit.

ShottleBop

For the clearest exposition of why some Protestant denominations do not consider Catholics to be "Christians", visit <a href="http://www.chick.com" target="_blank">www.chick.com</a> and follow some of the links that discuss Catholicism.

Disclaimer: I am not a Christian of any stripe, and do not concur with the views expressed by Jack Chick.

boneyard bill

The Christian Church that rose to prominence after its acceptance by the Emperor Constantine, was known as the "Holy Cathoic and Apostolic Church." The word "catholic" means "universal." So it was the universal church and according to Catholic theology, it was founded by Jesus himself. This church split after the Great Schizm into the present Roman Catholic Church and the various Orthodox churches.

According to Catholics, Christ founded the church as an instrument for salvation of human individuals. The church's sacraments, therefore, possess supernatural power to bring about forgiveness of sins and personal salvation. This is the result of Apostolic succession. Christ gave this power to his apostles and they have passed this power on to their successors through ritual ordination. A good Roman Catholic, therefore, can participate in an orthodox sacrament, and it will still be efficacious because the Orthodox church also descends from the apostles. They are "schizmatic" but not heretics.

Protestants deny apostolic succession. They claim that salvation is effected through faith alone and not by works. Even the most noble works will not get you to heaven, much less some mechanical ritual. Luther proclaimed the "priesthood of all believers." Christ acts directly on the individual and not through some human or institutional intermediary. Believing Catholics may be saved by their faith, but they are not saved by the Church or its minions.

Kosh

I'll never forget that one ep of "All in the Family". Edith Bunker starts getting counseling
from the catholic priest, and a concerned Archie
tells him something like:

"I just don' wan Edit' getting away from her
Christianity..."

Amos

Well if Catholics are Christians and Christians
are Catholic why would anybody go to church?

In my view Christianity is the end of religion so what would your kind of Christians be praying for? So they can go to heaven after they die, or what do you think? You tell me, please.

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Jayhawker Soule

Must you always speak solely for effect?

NOGO

Let me start by saying that I am an not a Christian of any stripes. I have cleansed my mind of myths or at least all that I am aware of.

Catholics believe that Jesus changed Simon's name to Peter in order to give him a special role. This is similar to Yahweh changing Abraham's name.
Right or wrong this is the place where Jesus appointed Peter as the head of the church.
You know - you are peter(rock) and on this rock blah blah blah...) Catholics have a COMPLETE list of popes since Peter. Just do a search for "popes" on the web to find it.
At least this is the claim. I am not really interested in arguing the point one way or another since this is of no interest to me personally.

Are Catholics Christians?
This question should not even be asked. Anybody who claims to follow Christ Jesus can also claim to be Christian. When one starts to assign special criteria from his own faith can one exclude this group or that group. I have no doubt that some Catholics don't consider Protestants as Christians. So what?

Catholics do not worship Mary.
Although Mary is considered something more than a saint. The obsession on this issue from both sides goes back to 4th century and is totally irrational. Catholics do pray to saints and Mary.
Since I don't believe that Jesus even existed then the status of Mary is irrelevant to me.

In my opinion it was Catholicism which elevated Jesus to the status of a God.

I don't believe that any Jew of the time would have accepted Jesus as God on the basis of the miracles for example. Jews read their bible and in it was Moses who was definitely human but also performed miracles. It was always clear however that the miracles were really performed by God.
What I find stange sometimes in the Gospels is that when Jesus does a miracle nobody in the scene says that he is God. They do often say that he was the messiah. But Moses was a messiah as well. So Jews of the time were not confused on this matter like later Christians.

Amos, you are totally confused. First Catholics are not the only ones waiting for Jesus's second coming. Secondly, Judaism has had many Christs (ie anointed ones of God), Saul, David, and Jehu to name but a few.

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