Starboy

I don't think it would matter at all. Someone once said "If God did not exisist man would invent him." So in your hypothetical senario, god does not exist and thus man would invent him. Perhaps that is indeed what has happened. IMHO the basis of all religions is mans need to submit to a higher power, and this need is a fundamental component of our social behaviour. I don't think that any proof would be sufficient enough to keep that from happening in some people. I think that any pack animal that could conceive of a god would probably do so.

Starboy

[ August 01, 2002: Message edited by: Starboy ]</p>

Theli

I've wondered about this.
Why do people need to submit to a higher power?
I don't feel that need. Why?

tommyc

The feeling that theists have of the overwhelming power of a God looking over them, you have replaced with the knowledge that you know the truth and that you can live your life without fear of such a being.

sighhswolf

Here is a favorite quote of mine to go along with what Koy said.
"In order to justify their behavior, they turn their theories into dogmas, their bylaws into First Principles, their political bosses into Gods and all those who disagree with them into incarnate devils. This idolatrous transformation of the relative into the Absolute and the all too human into the Divine, makes it possible for them to indulge their ugliest passions with a clear conscience and in the certainty that they are working for the Highest Good. And when the current beliefs come, in their turn, to look silly, a new set will be invented, so that the immemorial madness may continue to wear its customary mask of legality, idealism, and true religion."
(Aldous Huxley, The Devils of Loudun, 1952, Harper and Brothers, NY, NY.)

The irrationality will cease when humans finally realize they have no need for a divine creator.
It matters very little if the existance of this god is proven or disproven.
The core believers will always believe even in the face of insurmountable evidence to the contrary.
And if and when the image of the Judeo/Christian
god has faded in the collective minds of human beings, there will be another myth to take its place.
This god was born from the hopelessness, despair, poverty, war, starvation, oppressive societies, death that is the bain of humankind.
The need for lowly humans to feel some hope for a better world, to see good triumph over evil, the "have-nots" attaining the status of the "haves".
Unfortunately, those conditions have not improved all that much in 2000 years of god worship, they still exist today.
As long as those conditions exist for human kind,
there will always be a need for the myth of the triumph of the human spirit, an example of victory over darkness and despair, to give hope that this world can be better.
Christianity has not put an end to human suffering, it has in many instances been the very root of that suffering, but it still holds that "prize" up, the "golden ring" the promise that even if the world craps all over you, it is still possible for you to gain eternal happiness.
Those promises hold countless numbers of humans in the grip of superstition and false hope.
I personally do not see that changing at least in our lifetimes.
Wolf


<img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Laera

I agree that it could be devastating to the current generation - many suicides, rebellions, etc. But think of the future generations that would be "saved" from religiosity and the harmful effects of cult behavior.

(although, I agree wholeheartedly that this will forever remain a "hypothetical" for the reasons stated in previous posts - Starboy and sighswolf)

Stephen T-B

Sandlewood wrote: “... let’s say you could prove it mathematically or something. I think people still wouldn’t believe your proof. They would just see it as a test of their faith. They would ignore all proofs. So I don’t think revealing your proof would change anything.”
Correct. And I have to say that if god appeared in the sky over New York or Paris and said, in a booming voice: “I AM GOD” or “JE SUIS DIEU” (I hope his French’d be better than mine) and television cameras were there to record it and 10m people witnessed it, I’d think “It’s a special effect for a new movie.” If God then reached forth his arm and plucked me off the street and said, staring me in the eye: “Now do you believe in me?” I’d probably think I was dreaming.
Those who cannot believe cannot believe; those who do believe must believe.
(I’ve sometimes wondered what god would say to the world if he did ever choose
to manifest himself unambiguously; he’d have to be careful or he’d:
a. be accused by the Muslims, Hindus, Jews etc etc of being Christian hoax
b. be accused by the Christians of being a Muslim/Hindu/Jewish hoax
c. be accused by the Conservative Christians of being a Liberal Christians’ hoax
d. be accused by the Liberal Christians of being a Conservative Christians’ hoax
e. confuse people so much they’d say “Nah. There’s no such thing.”
We can be sure, however, that god will never manifest himself unambiguously because if he were to do so, believers would have to invent a new and permanently non-existent god in order to retain their faith.)

DMB

But would "Pakistan" even exist if it weren't for religion? My understanding is that British India would have gone on to be a single independent country 1n 1947 if it had not been for the desire of many muslims to have their own state.

Koyaanisqatsi

I would only augment this by saying, "This god was born in order to maintain the hopelessness, despair, poverty, war, etc....to keep the "have-nots" from attaining the status of the "haves."

You had made it seem as if the Judeo/Christian god was an organic or "natural" creation, when in fact it was deliberately created in order to control and maintain a ruling elite.

[ August 02, 2002: Message edited by: Koyaanisqatsi ]</p>

sighhswolf

Yep, thanks Koy for pointing that out, we share that opinion.
Organized religion is nothing more than emotional blackmail, disguised and handed to poor unsuspecting followers as hope.
Belief = obedience.
Unquestioned obedience.
Mental slavery bound with the chains of guilt.
Promoted by MEN, who seek power and control over the masses.
They smile and lie at the same moment.
Wolf

<img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Starboy

Hi Theli,

My theory on this is that we are social animals. That just as other animals, such as birds, fish, wolves, horses, dogs and so forth exhibit social behavior, so do we. Just look around you. The world of humans is chock full of hierarchical social structures. I think these are natural to us. If you took a bunch of humans and removed all modern knowledge and put them on a desert island, they would automatically form a hierarchical social structure. So what is more natural than to posit the existence of a hierarchical structure with animals at the bottom, man in the middle and some sort of super human being at the top? In reply to your second question, if it is ingrained animal behavior then it will have variation. Some will want to follow, others will seek to lead and some will not feel the need to lead or follow.

Starboy