Freethought & Rationalism Archive

hypoxia · 12-11-2002, 04:00 AM

Sorry, I'm somewhat new here, but I was wondering if there's a word for what I've been internally referring to as "not quite determanism" where people lack free will because their actions are the result of a combination of hereditary and social conditioning, but the result is not determined or predictable like the actions of a watch. Kind of a lump combo of my simple understanding of QED, chaos and determanism.

Keith Russell · 12-11-2002, 07:12 AM

Greetings:

I've begun calling it 'individual will', or 'self-determined will'.

Keith.

Osiris · 12-11-2002, 07:39 AM

Compatibilism - Belief that the causal determination of human conduct is consistent with the freedom required for responsible moral agency,
wherein it is possible to maintain both determinism and free will because while some aspects of human nature are determined, the ability to make moral decisions is not.

Beoran · 12-11-2002, 08:00 AM

Are you referring to the "butterfly effect"? In complex deterministical systems, minute causes can have great effects, and these effects cannot be easily reduced back to that cause, because the system is so complex. When a butterfly flaps it's wings in one place, that could eventually cause a storm in another place. Or not. It's hard to foretell.

Mageth · 12-11-2002, 08:03 AM

I call it real life, or reality.

John Page · 12-11-2002, 07:24 PM

"Soft Determinism" aka "Compatibilism". As pointed out by Osiris, the "free will" that this seems to allow is not absolutely free - its more like independent choice.

Sr. Zonules · 12-13-2002, 05:56 PM

I dunno if I'd call it 'free will' at all. I think that this mode of thinking is a group dynamic. Peer pressure falls very nicely into this category. If EVERYONE wants me to do this, I will have the dendancy to follow along, especially if I have fear of something, or a very dependent (weak) mind. I suppose I could still go against the group, but unless I have REAL independence and a strong will, then I will probably cave in. I hope that not too many people fall into this category.

12-11-2002, 04:00 AM	#1
hypoxia New Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 2	is there a word for... Sorry, I'm somewhat new here, but I was wondering if there's a word for what I've been internally referring to as "not quite determanism" where people lack free will because their actions are the result of a combination of hereditary and social conditioning, but the result is not determined or predictable like the actions of a watch. Kind of a lump combo of my simple understanding of QED, chaos and determanism.

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12-11-2002, 07:12 AM	#2
Keith Russell Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Overland Park, Kansas Posts: 1,336	Greetings: I've begun calling it 'individual will', or 'self-determined will'. Keith.

12-11-2002, 07:39 AM	#3
Osiris Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 40	Compatibilism - Belief that the causal determination of human conduct is consistent with the freedom required for responsible moral agency, wherein it is possible to maintain both determinism and free will because while some aspects of human nature are determined, the ability to make moral decisions is not.

12-11-2002, 08:00 AM	#4
Beoran Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 75	Are you referring to the "butterfly effect"? In complex deterministical systems, minute causes can have great effects, and these effects cannot be easily reduced back to that cause, because the system is so complex. When a butterfly flaps it's wings in one place, that could eventually cause a storm in another place. Or not. It's hard to foretell.

12-11-2002, 08:03 AM	#5
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	I call it real life, or reality.

12-11-2002, 07:24 PM	#6
John Page Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: US Posts: 5,495	"Soft Determinism" aka "Compatibilism". As pointed out by Osiris, the "free will" that this seems to allow is not absolutely free - its more like independent choice.

12-13-2002, 05:56 PM	#7
Sr. Zonules Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: N 47� 11� 14�, W 122� 10� 08� Posts: 82	I dunno if I'd call it 'free will' at all. I think that this mode of thinking is a group dynamic. Peer pressure falls very nicely into this category. If EVERYONE wants me to do this, I will have the dendancy to follow along, especially if I have fear of something, or a very dependent (weak) mind. I suppose I could still go against the group, but unless I have REAL independence and a strong will, then I will probably cave in. I hope that not too many people fall into this category.

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