Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Soul Invictus · 01-23-2003, 02:07 PM

A lot of times when I engage in debate about the existence of deities, it's automatically assumed that I'm in agreement with the evolutionary model or Big Bang theory on creation.

I don't think that it is necessary to explain how life began just because you lack a belief in (a) god(s). However I wonder are there any atheists that believe in a more creationist approach to life rather than evolutionary model. I don't think it would be far-fetched to say that someone could fall in this category. ( Or proponents of an evolutionary approach toward life and a belief that there is/are supreme beings possibly?

Invictus

Viti · 01-23-2003, 02:17 PM

I suppose deists believe there was a creator god who sort of took off after creation (meaning not a personal deity involved in our lives)

There are also evolutionary theists, they believe evolution was God's method of creating

Is this what you are asking for or am I way off base?

Soul Invictus · 01-23-2003, 02:49 PM

No you hit the nail on the head.

Most people I talk to hardline the issue to be

Atheist= ONLY evolution and
God fearer= ONLY creationist theory

I was throwing the idea out that there is overlap

Thanks a lot ladyshea!

Soul Invictus · 01-23-2003, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LadyShea
I suppose deists believe there was a creator god who sort of took off after creation (meaning not a personal deity involved in our lives)

There are also evolutionary theists, they believe evolution was God's method of creating

Is this what you are asking for or am I way off base?

BTW do you know any off hand? Should my family ask me about this I would want to see what they think to know that the theistic community embraces evolution!

BTW- Do you happen to know how the theists you speak of deal with reconciling the evolutionary timeline to that of the Bible since there is a very visible discrepancy (millions of years compared to a couple thousand?)

I'd be interested in knowing how they deal with that issue

Invictus

penumbra · 01-23-2003, 02:53 PM

I would guess that there would be a higher percentage of "god-fearers" who believe in evolution than there would be athiests who believe in a creation theory. Do we get to count the Raelians as athiests?

Soul Invictus · 01-23-2003, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by penumbra
I would guess that there would be a higher percentage of "god-fearers" who believe in evolution than there would be athiests who believe in a creation theory. Do we get to count the Raelians as athiests?

Unfortunately, I've heard of them, but have no knowledge about them. Please elaborate about them if you don't mind...

Invictus

philechat · 01-23-2003, 02:58 PM

I believe most liberal Christian and Jews accept something akin to "theistic evolution"--that God is involved with the evolutionary process, and did not "design" life as it is now in the beginning of evolutionary history. I have no idea how they reconcile the biblical history (and belief in an omnipotent God) with evolution, but they certainly exist.

As for non-evolutionary atheists, yes, they also exist. The former Soviet Union, I think, endorsed a Lamarckian view of evolution, as did Sigmund Freud. And there were plenty of atheists in the pre-Darwin era, who probably lacked knowledge about Darwinian evolution as well.

penumbra · 01-23-2003, 03:15 PM

posted by Sol Invictus
"Unfortunately, I've heard of them, but have no knowledge about them. Please elaborate about them if you don't mind... "

Their web site (www.rael.org) seems to be down at the moment, but there is some info on them at:
http://www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml9821.htm

Basically, they propose that earthly humans were the result of genetic tampering by aliens. They describe themselves as atheistic, but their views of these alien scientists seem to approach theism. There was a good thread here about them, but I can't seem to locate it (I think my ISP is having problems today).

Marduk · 01-23-2003, 04:26 PM

Some Pagan religions believe a creator God made the universe, then created 'the gods' who in turn made humans.

Then there are the Rael/Sitchin crowd who think the Bible stories and all Mesopotamian Mythology are stories about the Annunaki, 600 alien beings who, according to myth, were stranded on Earth. They found primitive hominids that they turned into humans with genetic gene splicing. They made the humans do all the grunt work, in return they taught humans civilization, agriculture etc.
There are many Sumerian stories that read like this.
Let US make man in OUR image, that's the alien talking to his alien pals.

Flyboy · 01-23-2003, 07:17 PM

My mother is one of the evolutionary theists. She reconciles the difference in timelines of the Bible and evolution by saying that the seven days in which God created everything were "God days" meaning that they actually took many many years.

Of course that brings up some interesting problems.

01-23-2003, 02:07 PM	#1
Soul Invictus Contributor Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 15,576	Atheistic view on the how life began A lot of times when I engage in debate about the existence of deities, it's automatically assumed that I'm in agreement with the evolutionary model or Big Bang theory on creation. I don't think that it is necessary to explain how life began just because you lack a belief in (a) god(s). However I wonder are there any atheists that believe in a more creationist approach to life rather than evolutionary model. I don't think it would be far-fetched to say that someone could fall in this category. ( Or proponents of an evolutionary approach toward life and a belief that there is/are supreme beings possibly? Invictus

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01-23-2003, 02:17 PM	#2
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	I suppose deists believe there was a creator god who sort of took off after creation (meaning not a personal deity involved in our lives) There are also evolutionary theists, they believe evolution was God's method of creating Is this what you are asking for or am I way off base?

01-23-2003, 02:49 PM	#3
Soul Invictus Contributor Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 15,576	No you hit the nail on the head. Most people I talk to hardline the issue to be Atheist= ONLY evolution and God fearer= ONLY creationist theory I was throwing the idea out that there is overlap Thanks a lot ladyshea!

01-23-2003, 02:53 PM	#5
penumbra Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 1,938	I would guess that there would be a higher percentage of "god-fearers" who believe in evolution than there would be athiests who believe in a creation theory. Do we get to count the Raelians as athiests?

01-23-2003, 02:58 PM	#7
philechat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Mind of the Other Posts: 886	I believe most liberal Christian and Jews accept something akin to "theistic evolution"--that God is involved with the evolutionary process, and did not "design" life as it is now in the beginning of evolutionary history. I have no idea how they reconcile the biblical history (and belief in an omnipotent God) with evolution, but they certainly exist. As for non-evolutionary atheists, yes, they also exist. The former Soviet Union, I think, endorsed a Lamarckian view of evolution, as did Sigmund Freud. And there were plenty of atheists in the pre-Darwin era, who probably lacked knowledge about Darwinian evolution as well.

01-23-2003, 03:15 PM	#8
penumbra Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 1,938	posted by Sol Invictus "Unfortunately, I've heard of them, but have no knowledge about them. Please elaborate about them if you don't mind... " Their web site (www.rael.org) seems to be down at the moment, but there is some info on them at: http://www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml9821.htm Basically, they propose that earthly humans were the result of genetic tampering by aliens. They describe themselves as atheistic, but their views of these alien scientists seem to approach theism. There was a good thread here about them, but I can't seem to locate it (I think my ISP is having problems today).

01-23-2003, 04:26 PM	#9
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	Some Pagan religions believe a creator God made the universe, then created 'the gods' who in turn made humans. Then there are the Rael/Sitchin crowd who think the Bible stories and all Mesopotamian Mythology are stories about the Annunaki, 600 alien beings who, according to myth, were stranded on Earth. They found primitive hominids that they turned into humans with genetic gene splicing. They made the humans do all the grunt work, in return they taught humans civilization, agriculture etc. There are many Sumerian stories that read like this. Let US make man in OUR image, that's the alien talking to his alien pals.

01-23-2003, 07:17 PM	#10
Flyboy Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 412	My mother is one of the evolutionary theists. She reconciles the difference in timelines of the Bible and evolution by saying that the seven days in which God created everything were "God days" meaning that they actually took many many years. Of course that brings up some interesting problems.

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