SLD

Did the Gnostics believe in the same Jesus as the other churches of their time? That is did they believe that he was a real man who had walked first century palestine and was physically resurrected after being crucified?

SLD

triplew00t

There were as many Gnostic schools as there are current Christian denominations. Some did believe he was a man, some did not, some believe he was a man but another man (Simon) took his place on the cross. Others still believe he was a spirit-formed man, not a material man at all. Here are a few links. I suggest reading the Nag Hammadhi library yourself to get the full idea. "The Gnostic Gospels" by Elaine Pagels is also useful, as is Fricke and Gandy's "The Jesus Mysteries" and "Jesus and the Lost Goddess" though their works are less scholorly, and some even venture, false and simply there to support their own brand of mysticism.

http://www.gnosis.org/library.html
http://www.religioustolerance.org/gnostic.htm
http://www.gnosticchristianity.com/
http://www.gnosticphilosophy.cwc.net/
http://www.thepearl.org/
http://www.gnosticmystica.com/

Keep in mind, many things called Gnostic on some websites (not these) actually refers to later orders suchs as Hermetic and Thelema.

-Nero

Volker.Doormann

LOL. Believe? Gnostics? LOL. The people, who was called Gnostics had knowlegde (greek: gnosis); Cite GOT: "When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

Volker

SLD

Thanks for the links Triple. This is what I was looking for at the religioustolerance website:

Something I can read without taking two weeks of intense study.


SLD

fried beef sandwich

Kind of like "The Life of Brian"

"Here, brother, let me lift your burden"
"Oh what? Oh, thank you" <takes off>

(later)

"No, you don't understand really - I'm not supposed to be here. I was just carrying the cross for him - "

"Well you can hang there until he gets back, then we'll put him up there"

"Oh yes, alright. Thank you"

Boro Nut

..and though you live in a big house, thou shalt dwell in a hovel.

And although thou hast riches beyond belief, thou shalt be skint.

And though thou actually hast more than enough food to eat thank you, thou shalt hunger.

No no it's true. Honest.

I can see I am losing you on this one.

Boro Nut

Volker.Doormann

I do laugh about that imagination of believe in context with Gnosis. Gnosis is the knowledge about the world beyond the fleshly world and has nothing in common with believe.

No one has spoken about those, who are fixed in this your cited physically fleshly world.

Lao=Tse has said: "Truthful words are not beautiful - Beautiful words are not truthful.". There is no place for sentimentality while recognizing truth: GOT: "If you do not fast from the world, you will not find the 'father's kingdom'." "If the flesh came into being because of spirit, that is a marvel, but if spirit came into being because of the body, that is a marvel of marvels. Yet I marvel at how this great wealth has come to dwell in this poverty." "Whoever has come to know the world has discovered a carcass, and whoever has discovered a carcass, of that person the world is not worthy." "Whoever has come to know the world has discovered the body, and whoever has discovered the body, of that one the world is not worthy."

Volker

Amos

Correct. To "know" is to be without faith and to be without faith is to be without doubt. Accordingly, all faithers are doubters to the same degree that they do not know and, also, all doubters are faithers to the same degree that they do not know. This makes unbelievers impoverished believers and atheists an impossible position . . . but really not more absurd than 'Christian believers' because Christians are supposed to have the mind of Christ and know (be Gnostic).

Evidence for this argument is found in the Gospel where Jesus did not ascend into heaven until all doubt was removed. In the Gospels doubt was personified with Thomas and the moment all his doubt was removed Peter (the faither) was bereft of his cloak (of faith).

It was not until the next fishing trip that Peter put on his cloak of faith and dove headfirst into the celestial sea where the fish were large and easy to catch. The celestial sea is the right side of the boat which symbolizes the right brain to make the Catholic Church an inspired religion.