dangin

Yes, How dare we heathens think that Virginia, where Jefferson wrote the Virginia Statute for Religious freedom, (which is far more explicitly separationist than the first amendment) and where most of the first presidents (deists) came from, was not distinctly xian.

SLD

Good gracious. This is the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard. It is the fundamentalist creed and a clear example of why we must continue this fight.

To exclude God is to deny God??!!!

But which God? Why not the God or Gods of the Hindus, and of a whole host of other deities unnamed. We are excluding them all. This all or nothing mentality is what led Christians on centuries of repression and if allowed to take a foothold in the U.S. Government would spell the death knell for religious freedom. You are either a good god fearing Christian or you are an evil atheist commie, and once that you can be stripped of your citizenship and imprisoned without trial.

Ulyanov would be proud. What is to be done?

SLD

Worldtraveller

Why is not mentioning god in public schools the same as denying god?? Leaving off for the moment exactly which god we should be denying...??

There are CHURCHES for that!! The US government does not regulate churches in any way, and they even let them get off from paying taxes that they should IMHO rightfully pay, like most other for profit organizations! :banghead:

If we were making students take Atheism 101 as freshman, and telling them they weren't allowed to go to church, that would be one thing, but come on, let's get a little sense of perspective here, please.


Lane

PopeInTheWoods

Wow, what position do you hold in the Bush administration?

That's quite an assertion there, and a false dichotomy to boot.
- Theistic: "One nation, under God, indivisible...."
- Atheistic: "One godless nation, indivisible...."
- Neutral: "One nation indivisible...."

But granting your assertion for the sake of argument, is the USA Constitution a theistic or an atheistic document? As has been mentioned, a plain reading "excludes god".

Also, given that a majority of public educators in the USA are xian, exactly how is atheism being indoctrinated?

Theo's position smacks of a political version of presuppositionalism. Would someone please summon the spirit of SingleDad to lay waste to this gobbledygook?

Andy

Ab_Normal

Government got into the "business of education" over 150 years ago in order to alleviate inequalities in the educational system. The free market was not answering the needs of poor children; education was reserved for the (minimal) middle class and the upper classes. I don't know about states back east, but out here in the "Wild Wild West" most of the state constitutions list universal education of children as one of their number one priorities.

Anecdotal data: I've been looking into private education for my child. The really good school is quite expensive ($12K a year for elementary school). Not only are the more affordable schools usually religious (a definite no-go, in my book), but I've had friends teach at church-affiliated schools, and they were paid less than public school teachers, and paid even more out of pocket for supplies than public school teachers do. Not a good deal.