Majody

I am having a few problems with god, and by that I mean the Christian God. Some questions need answering, and any help would be appreciated. Excuse me if I seem like a little kid, because to tell you the truth, I am. I'll be 17 in June.

1) They say babies are born ignorant. What happens to a baby that dies? Jesus said that the only way to heaven was "through him," but unless babies posess a higher knowledge that they lose as they age it would seem we have a problem. Does god just make an exception? This question also applies to any person that never experiences Xianity, ie: Tribes in the jungles of Brazil, etc.

2.This one may seem to be asked often, I'm not sure, but please bear with me: Who made god? Did someone make god? I've heard people say he "just exists," and they assume he is the highest form of life, but why couldn't there be a higher form? Because we don't have a bible for it?

Again, I apologize if this seems crude, but remember, I'm just a young whippersnapper. Thanks in advance for any replies.

Pyrrho

I think you will find that different Christians give different answers. For example, Augustine said that those who are not Christians all go to hell. He said that everyone deserved to go to hell, so this is not a bad thing. The "good Christians" also deserve hell (original sin, as well as all sins committed by the individual), but, because of God's mercy, they would get to go to heaven. Many Christians these days disagree with Augustine, but most Christians these days don't pay much attention to the Bible.

For your second question, I suspect that most, if not all, Christians will tell you that God has always existed, so He was not made.

Mind you, I think Christianity is really just primitive superstition, but you must decide such things for yourself. Here is something that you may find interesting:

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

malookiemaloo

Hello Majody,

First of all, don't apologise for asking questions!!

On your first point, there are many such questions that we would all like to know the answer to. What happens to babies who die is one. Also what about people who have never heard the gospel? What about 'good' people who live a 'good' life but reject God. What about Ghandi-good man but rejected Jesus?

It is very interesting but Jesus was on two occassions was asked similar questions. One was 'will many be saved?' and the other was after His resurrection when Peter asked Jesus about what would happen to the disciple He loved (probably John).

Not only did Jesus not answer the questions, he cut the questioners dead!! To Peter He said '..........what is that to you?, follow me!'

It seems that Jesus was not into answering peoples' idle curiosity. All He did was to insist that those who DID know the gospel lived it out.

We will never know the answer to these questions this side of eternity, but what difference would it make if we did? Jesus's words would still apply. 'Follow me!'

On your second point, Pyrrho is right. God is ex tempore ie He is beyond time and has always existed.

cheers,


m

s5o8

Hi Majody

Firstly, I think the story goes that babies and children are exempt because Jesus said that heaven belongs to them, I cannot recall the passage but I have heard the argument. On the tribes men question I have heard an argument that suggests that because they have not heard the gospel they are also exempt. There is a passage where Jesus says that people that hears his message and rejects it will go to hell, maybe implying that whose that did not “hear” would not. All the direct evidence however says that through Jesus is the only way. Someone is sure to correct me on this or give the quoted scripture.

On you second point xians do believe that no one created god and that he just exists, but it is the classical circle argument if god created the universe who created god ? I personally would not call the xian god alive because it is arguable if he would actually qualify as a life form by any definition, he does not have a life cycle, he does not reproduce, he does not feed and …and…..and.

SRB

Let us suppose a baby would have grown up to get into the wrong religion, or would have in some other way behaved improperly to end up damned. However, let us suppose the baby is instead murdered by its parents. On the view you mention, wouldn't it be true to say that the murdering parents have done the baby a big favour?

Some of the Spanish conquistadors baptized South American infants and then smashed out their brains to guarantee the infants' salvation. I think that they employed the reasoning that I mention.

On that view, Christian evangelism does not help to get anyone saved. Spreading the gospel can only increase the number of people damned. That's a problematic position for a Christian.

SRB

Pyrrho

Indeed. Modern "liberal" types of Christians tend to be horribly inconsistent about their religion. At least those like Augustine make some effort to follow the principles of logic.

Tristan Scott

You can well imagine that this was probably a question of great importance to early Christians given the high infant mortality rates in those days. There actually was a very popular piece of scripture that dealt with this issue called the Apaocalypse of Peter. In it God is said to have assigned a caretaker angel for children who died befor they were saved. Though the scripture was mentioned in a positive way by the Early Church Fathers, it was not accepted into canon.

Jobar

Hi Majody, and welcome. Don't apologize for your youth- we have a moderator on one of our other forums who is about your age, and several regular posters even younger! It may be that you ask what seems to be a simple and often-repeated question, but in such a way as to cause us older heads to see that question in an entirely different light. Your perspective is just as valuable as mine- or so it seems to me.

The Catholic Church used to claim that unbaptized children and innocent heathens who had never heard the tale of Jesus went to Limbo- the First Circle of Hell, where there is no torment save for the absence of God. I understand from Catholics on this board that this doctrine has been changed within the last few decades; Albert Cipriani, do you want to comment on this?

Your second question is a way of asking about infinite regression; the universe was made by God, who was made by SuperGod, who was made by HyperGod, who was... on and on and on! I suggest you look up 'Occam's Razor'; I'll post my favorite .gif here, and if you want us to explain it more, please feel free to ask!

johngalt

and this is why i am an atheist

malookiemaloo

With respect, this statement is illogical.

What you appear to be saying is that God does not exist because you do not like your perception of Him. But God's existence or otherwise is independent of our opinion of Him. Don't you agree?


m