SimplyAtheistic

Hey, I just recently found this message board, it seems quite a few intelligent people frequent it. Recently my brother's friend was talking to me, and I stated that there were contradictions in the bible. He of course said there were none and the bible was infallable. So that night I printed off contradictions, and when I showed it to him the next day he immediately threw them away after making a snide remark. He did not even bother to look at them. This symbolizes the stereotypical christian , they will challenge something verbally, but when you bring facts they just will not look at them, deny them, and run away from them. It is no wonder they came to christianity in the first place. Now for another example, I was talking to my mom about the existence of god and she grew mad that I had lost my faith. She said that some times people become too intelligent and need proof for everything, and that is a bad thing. So basically she was glorifying ignorance. This is what most christians seem to act like, and its no wonder that they became believers in the first place. The problem with trying to persuade them to question their faith is the fact that they DONT WANT TO. They are so content with the thought of heaven that they even refer to atheism as "pure satanic evil whose notions are spread through atheist propoganda". I am curious if there is a christian that actually researches heavily to validate his beliefs, most christians I know will research until they find one fact supporting their claims and then they dont want to research any more lest they disprove their own insane religion. So, is there a christian that continually challenges his faith?
Jake

beth

I did.... and became an Atheist for it.

BibleBelted

Me too. Some will pretend to look for truth by reading books like Josh McDowell's Evidence That Demands a Verdict or Lee Strobel's Case for Christ but anyone who finds their answers satisfying has got to be kidding, IMO.

"Stereotypical" is not a word I like to use, but in the case of the fundamentalist theist, xian or otherwise - it is very apt. They may come from a diverse background of ethnicity or education, but in the end they have all surrendered their rationality to gain some imaginary security, adopting a cookie-cutter worldview - where honest investigation and the use of reason are horrible crimes.

What I find fascinating (like a trainwreck) is how they are so totally unaware of just how unexamined their beliefs are - and not just about religion, but about almost everything.

Example: Last week I had lunch with an engineer customer of mine and he got on his soapbox about how "if you read the (US) Constitution, the whole thing is based on christian principles."

This is like waving a red flag in front of me (he knows I'm an unbeliever). So I asked him what "christian principles" he was talking about - consent of the governed? equality? inalienable rights? civil liberties? the right to bear arms? free speech?

He was utterly spit-sputtering speechless - he had no idea. Totally, and I mean totally defenseless. He'd never thought for one second about these principles - he'd probably heard some TV preacher say it and he was just mindlessly repeating it.

I suppose his church thinks he is a model xian, but to me he's just another dumbshit.

Amaranth

I suggest looking up posts by the user "spurly". I'm certain there are those here who would disagree, but I'd say he's a reasonable individual who has no problems with his beliefs being challanged.

Reasonable for a theist, anyways.

Amaranth

tdekeyser

Welcome to the boards Jake.

There are a lot of very intelligent people on this board, even the theists. You should hang out and get involved, the people here are very cool!

**I open a cold beer for Jake:**

BibleBelted

But - is he honestly challenging, or questioning, his own beliefs or just fielding challenges to them and responding with equivocations and excuses for that which he has no answer?

philechat

For a Christian who continuously challenges his faith, perhaps we should look no further than Kierkegaard and Dostoyevsky, both of whom I have a lot of respect for.

ManM

This reminds me of a quote by Bishop Kallistos Ware:
"True faith is a constant dialogue with doubt, for God is incomparably greater than all our preconceptions about Him; our mental concepts are idols that need to be shattered. So as to be fully alive, our faith needs continually to die."

spurly

Amaranth, thanks for the good words.

Biblebelted, I am one who will constantly search out my beliefs. If there is something that throws up a red flag, I will keep searching. I don't want to be one who just follows a list of guidelines because someone told me they were true.

I don't feel like I am responding with equivocations and excuses. Sometimes I may say, "I don't know", but when that happens, I want to find out the answer as best I can.

Kevin

Amaranth

Biblebelted:

While I can't say that spurly's logic or reasoning is always apparent to me, I can say that I've seen him change his position in light of evidence, and I have seen him say the words "I don't know". To me, this displays that he is actually thinking about his beliefs, and not just quoting responses he has laid out before.

Amaranth