Queen of Swords

Originally posted by spurly
At one time we did live in Paradise. (Or at least our ancestors did). They had access to the tree of life,

Where in the bible does it say that they had access to the tree of life? Genesis 3:22 implies that God could not allow Adam and Eve to eat this fruit in case they lived forever.

But then Paradise was lost. When that happened, God decided to let the consequences of the free will of man run their course.

This would be before or after he sent the flood? Perhaps you meant to say that God decided to let the consequences of the free will of man run their course up to a point, and then he killed off all the evil people, something he doesn't seem to do today.

However, I know if miracles were routine, they would not be miracles anymore. If anytime we asked God for something he automatically stepped in and answered our prayer, who wouldn't believe in God?

Wasn't it Jesus who said, "if you ask the Father for anything in my name it will be given to you?"

It wouldn't take any faith at all to have a relationship with a God like that.

So it's better to have faith-relationships with God and suffer murder, child molestation, torture, rape, etc. than real relationships with God minus all those things?

God wants us to come to him in faith.

Then why did he perform so many miracles on earth? He should have said, "Oh, Mary, Martha, I want you to come to me in faith, so I'm going to let your brother rot for now."

Debbie T

Kevin, No you really didn't answer me. The bible says ask and you will receive, yet you went off on a rant about people praying for a Santa Claus list. I told you my story and I can understand why you choose to ignore it.

Your whole answer seems so disconnected from humanity. Desensitized and sanitized. I don't think you have really thought about it, perhaps with your head but doesn't look like it comes from the heart. God says he will answer prayers. Yet my prayers were totally unanswered. As a child I believed he would answer me. That was what I was taught and I believed it.

So why didn't god answer my prayer? He didn't even say no he wouldn't help me. It was total silence.

I really don't care what kind of world we live in. It should not make a difference if god loves his creation. This god is totally void of humanity when he ignores the cries of people who are suffering.

Yes the ol' KISS principle. Keep it simple stupid. Now why wouldn't god want us to know for sure he is there? Instead of all this faith mumble jumble. Shoot if he would have answered my prayer as a child, I would be right there believing he is real.

The reason for all the mumble jumble is because HE ISN"T THERE. Never has and never will. That is why the prayers aren't answered even though in the bible there is a promise that all prayers are answered. You know once a lie is told it is hard to believe truth is going to come from the same source.

I did go to him in faith and he failed miserably. There was encouragement or love or comfort, I walked the ordeal alone for years, and years of problems into my adulthood because of it. I kept asking God for help and continually this god was silent.

I found your first rant was an insult to those of us that prayed for much needed help.

Yes my dad says that, he goes through life thinking he is being persecuted because he is a Christian, perhaps that is why he molested his children. The only people I see persecuting others surprisingly are Christians themselves.

So god actually says no to you and you can hear him?

I live in this world and take care of myself and my family. I take responsibility because there is not a sky daddy that is going to protect or save me from anything in this world. He wasn't there when I needed him the most as a child, so he has proved to be an unreliable dead beat parent in the worst way.

I hope you take a look back on your rant about what people pray for and at least learn something from this dialogue. That your rant was far from the truth.

mecca777

:notworthy

I don't know what else to say - you've said it all. They tell you He loves you, they tell you He'll protect you - and when He doesn't, they tell you it doesn't work like that, and it's all your fault anyway, and they never meant to give you any other impression with all that "ask and you shall receive" stuff. I don't think Xians realise just how sick that makes them look.

MrDarwin

Paradise was "lost" because Satan rebelled, and then God, oddly enough, decided to allow Satan to muck up all the rest of creation.
But what Christians always leave out here is that according to their own belief system God knew it would happen, from the moment he/she/it created the world, in fact even before creating it.

But isn't that precisely the point? Doesn't God want us to believe in him/her/it? And given how high the stakes are (at least according to what Christians keep telling us), doesn't it seem just a wee bit odd that God doesn't do just a wee bit more to get us to believe?

I just still don't get it. Why do we have to believe on faith? Again, given the stakes, why does God play this little game with us? It simply doesn't make sense. If your child were standing in the middle of the highway with a truck barrelling down on her, wouldn't you do whatever it takes to get her out of harm's way?

Biff the unclean

Okay, here's a true story about prayer.
A while back Mary, the wife of an old service buddy, of mine was diagnosed with cancer. She immediately sought out the best medical care and at the same time started praying. She prayed, her family prayed, masses were said. Medical treatment went on.

A few weeks after she was diagnosed I was diagnosed with exactly the same cancer, in the same degree of advancement. I didn't pray, my family didn't pray and some religious type who got into my hospital room and started praying as I demanded he stop was forcefully ejected from my room by my son.

Mary died a horrible death, drugged out of her mind for weeks before she passed.
I'm fine. Fit as a fiddle.

From personal experience I'd say that praying is deadly…don't do it, you'll be sorry.

Bree

Kevin, I'm not sure what kind of a world you live in, but not very many young children understand the whole "God listens to you and loves you very much, but we live in a 'fallen world' and we need to have faith in Jesus in order to cope with all the bad things happening to us" claptrap.

Children's Bible study is very simplistic - it has to be, because it's geared to children. "Ask, and it shall be given unto you" - that's pretty simple to understand. Tell a child that and she'll understand it. What she doesn't understand is all the baggage that comes with that statement (by baggage I mean that "fallen world" stuff) and so when help doesn't come, it's very difficult for her not to believe God hasn't heard her or doesn't care to answer.

Oolon Colluphid

Please define 'created'.

You keep bandying this term around. What are you on about?

TTFN, DT

lpetrich

I wonder how spurly relates to natural disasters, because he seems to believe that they had never happened in the Garden of Eden or whatever.

Does he have some beliefs similar to the sort of beliefs that Byzantine Emperor Justinian had had, beliefs like Justinian's belief that homosexual acts cause earthquakes?

But if that is the case, then why hasn't San Francisco made the nearby San Andreas Fault very slippery?

Also, there is evidence that continents have drifted for the last 4 billion years, meaning lots of earthquakes over all that time.

But humanity has existed for only a tiny fraction of that time, and the most "advanced" organisms in the earlier part of that time had been various bacteria.

And bacteria don't have two sexes; they multiply by dividing, and they can inject snippets of genetic material into each other.

sakrilege

A cruel bastard.

keyser_soze

I can see it obviously...perhaps someone has on blinders? Or possibly has their head buried in the sand? Or possibly is just suffering some type of break with reality? The last being my general guess when dealing with the religious.