Paul5204

To all:

In my hubris, I thought that I might ask one question. The book of Genesis, when does it say that the sun was made?

If you answered day four, think again. Better yet, read the story again.

What does the text report as one of the reasons why God made ['asah] the sun?

To divide between the light and between the darkness?

Now go back and read Genesis 1 and tell me when the light was divided from the darkness.

On day one.

As I had posted prior, the Hebrew does not express the verb in English tenses. So when the story reports that God 'asah [made] or bara' [created], careful on just when you think such occurred, since your thinking in English verb tenses might confuse the matter.

Vorkosigan

The Sun is a star, running off nuclear fusion, and is billions of years old. Whether your god is believed to have done it on the fourth or first day is unimportant. It's a creation myth, obviously legendary in nature, and does not represent anything that really happened. Millions of people are content believing that, and are strong, vital, loving Christians. Why is it necessary to make up such fantastic resolutions to these obvious contradictions? There isn't any need!

Vorkosigan

[ July 27, 2002: Message edited by: Vorkosigan ]</p>

Daniel_AnglumTM

That still doesnt make the story any more realistic...
I mean just from a Historical point of view the story as any sort of history is suspect to say the least, its sources are far too political.

Jayhawker Soule

So, awash in numerically challenged hubris, you would reject the exegesis (and translation) found in the Etz Hayim Torah and Commentary: Or, perhaps, we should send these Rabbis back to Hebrew school. In either case, thank you for sharing.

[ July 27, 2002: Message edited by: ReasonableDoubt ]</p>

lpetrich

Does this imply that Genesis 1 is somehow out of chronological order? Narratives are universally assumed to be in chronological order unless explicitly indicated otherwise, so why should Genesis 1 be any different?

And this hypothesis has other implications as well. It could imply that Jesus Christ's resurrection had never happened, because the accounts of it had described events that took place before he was executed.

FunkyRes

The fact that Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 do not mesh is an indication that they are not literal accounts at all, but are two versions of the same story that is recorded in Genesis not for the purposes of giving an exact specification of the creation process, but to preserve these stories of the creation process.

It is very possible that the numerology in it had some kind of symbolic signifigance.

It is also possible that they are just stories that the people preserved and passed dowm until they were written down.

In my opinion, they are recorded to demonstrate that God is before anything came to existance and authoritve over the entire universe, and that they are not recorded to give us a literal history of what God did that man could not have possibly recorded since in both stories, we were the last to be made.

Answerer

The bible is logically flawed by stating that the day was created before the sun did.

Sojourner553

Here is what my Bible says:


Genesis-Chapter 1 states God created the universe in six days, and in the following order:

DAY 1: God created the Heaven and the Earth. Then he ordered Light (which
He called Day) to come into existence, and divided it from the Darkness (which
He called Night).

DAY 2: God created the firmament of Heaven out of the watery universe,
separating the waters which were under the firmament with those which were
over the firmament.

DAY 3: God ordered the waters of the earth to gather away from the land,
and ordered the earth to bring forth grass and trees bearing fruit.

DAY 4: God made the sun, the moon, and the stars:

"And God made the two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and
the lesser light to rule the night; he made the stars also. And God set them
in the firmament of the heavens to give light upon the earth, to rule the day
and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness."

DAY 5: God created fish and winged fowl. God created whales.

DAY 6: God created the animals. Then God made created man in HIS image.

DAY 7: God rested from all His work that he had done.

********************************************
It seems to me you are focusing on ONE point only, while conveniently IGNORING other points.
To be consistent/rational, all these need to be tied up in one unified theme:


* Explain how regardless if the sun is interpreted on Day 4 (ie the literal text) or figuratively on Day 1 --

the earth is said to be created before BOTH of these events! This is a major contradiction of what modern astronomy teaches.


* Which was created first -- man or animals? I'm sure you are aware there are two independent creation stories -- one in Genesis I, the other in Genesis Chapter 2. In Genesis I, animals are created first. In Genesis II, Adam is created first.

* While you're at it, I'd like to know if you think Eve was created from Adam's rib...

I hate this focusing on one verse and twisting it, while ignoring the implications of all other verses in a unified whole,

Sojourner

[ July 28, 2002: Message edited by: Sojourner553 ]</p>

Michael Ledo

It is an interesting question which brings to mind some of the problems with Bibla literalists. While they go to great lengths to refute the millions of years of evolution with degreed biologists and experts, there seems to be a severe lack of young earthers in the astro-physics gang. The billions of years of evolution of stars is not sufficiently or scientifically addressed by the fundies. While they may mock at the billions of light years which separate the galaxies, they have done little to prove that the stars or for that fact any single star, using mathmatical formulas for fusion rates etc. can only be 6,000 years old. Where is the Christian fudie argument. Anyone have a web site we can ridicule?

Jayman

Michael Ledo, most YEC's I've talked to explain away the stars by saying that God created them to appear that old, or that God created them in the middle of their (star) life.

NOTE: I do not hold the above view, so don't ridicule me or ask any questions.