Freethought & Rationalism Archive

sullster · 11-10-2002, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos:


So yes, Luther was nothing special because there is nothing to be special in (remember here that all roads lead to Rome). Luther was just obnoxious and so even this protestant movement will run out of steam once they realize that there is only so much fire you can get our of the bible. All they need is time to sort things out for themeselves and you are a good example of this.

[ November 09, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]

Nonsense, Amos. Martin Luther was a towering figure of European and world history. He managed to spark and define a religious and ultimately a cultural revolution. The effects are still with us.

Double nonsense about your comment that the Protestant movement will run out of steam. It is spreading around the world and is making inroads into catholic areas.

Are you daft? There is infinite fire that can be derived from the bible to further religious delusion. The printing of the bible in the vernacular was the most powerful aspect of the Protestant Reformation. The catholic religion can never ever get the protestant genie back in the bottle.

GeoTheo · 11-10-2002, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos:


At least all "salvation message" protestants do not regard Catholics as Christians and are very eager to save them in Jesus' name. As seen from their side Catholics are a "good catch" and will someday become a trophy in their mansion in heaven (we think they will prove to be their "filthy rags").

During the period prior to the printing press protestants trace their apostolic tradition on the anathema side of the Chuch and will boast about it. We agree and therefore nothing has changed.

Protestants often like the candles and icons but they themselves do not have any. Icons are inspired messages and they all have a meaning to be contemplated (or even just observed) by the believers. Through these messages we communicate with the saints in heaven (because icons are inspired mesages).

For example, the advent wreath is round and has four candles to be lit one each week as we appoach Christmas. The third candle to be lit is white while the other three are purple. This wreath resembles our advent period that leads towards our Christ-mass event. The purple is descibed in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.

To make this short, protestants will copy this wreath but ignore the white candle (and will often make it square in "protest"). In Catholicism the white candle stands for "a glimmer of hope" that becomes our Christ-mass star to lead the wise men to our personal Epiphany.

To the Church the absence if this white candle indicates that there is no hope for protestants just as there was no hope for the rich man.

Amos,
I respect Roman Catholics and consider them brethren. I somtimes wonder though If they really think I should become a Catholic. I stopped attending the Baptist Church and have been attending a Lutheran Church and I like the liturgy and traditions and chanting. I think there is somthing to be said for ritual. Baptist worship looks kind of banal now in retrospect. My poor wife on the other hand feels lost because she is not familiar with any of the traditions and will probably go back to the Baptist Church.
I wonder if perhaps there are more Baptists that become atheists than Roman Catholics. The Baptists seem to like to strip everything away to achieve "purity" until there is hardly anything left but the sermon.

11-10-2002, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sullster:


Nonsense, Amos. Martin Luther was a towering figure of European and world history. He managed to spark and define a religious and ultimately a cultural revolution. The effects are still with us.

I know, he tore open the gates of hell and set all of Europe ablaze.

Quote:

Double nonsense about your comment that the Protestant movement will run out of steam. It is spreading around the world and is making inroads into catholic areas.

I know, the bastards. Now they are setting the whole world on fire for Jesus. But not for long I think. In many places they are sending them back home to America.

Quote:

Are you daft? There is infinite fire that can be derived from the bible to further religious delusion. The printing of the bible in the vernacular was the most powerful aspect of the Protestant Reformation. The catholic religion can never ever get the protestant genie back in the bottle.

Yes it was the most powerful aspect. I think it is funny that they think that an omniscient God needs their printing press when it clearly states that there is no salvation to be found in the bible (Jn.5:39 "you search the scriptures wherein you think you have eternal life, yet you fail to come to me to possess that life.)" I once read that they have about 6 languages done for New Guinea alone and are trying to do the other 50 or so needed there.

The Catholic Church has Truth going for them and if ever a protestant wants to get anywhere it is this Truth that will drag him to Rome. The problem there is that he should go into quarantine first to get all those evil bugs out of 'm before he infests all those good Catholics with his plague (we have several of them already in prominent places and there are many on the Catholic Convert board).

11-10-2002, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeoTheo:


Amos,
I respect Roman Catholics and consider them brethren. .

We would call protestants seperated brethren (which is just a polite way to say lost brethren). Apart from that GeoTheo, I am not here to preach or to lead anyone anyplace and am not about to condemn a specific religion for what they preach. For me there is only one (besides Judaism) and that is Catholicism in Christendom.

Catholicism may seem cold, and distant. I know but our God is not to be pandered and our BVM is even much more special. I am much more interested in defending the Church and let people sort out their own life, Catholic or not, because it is not easy for Catholics either in todays world.

[ November 10, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]

GeoTheo · 11-10-2002, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos:


Sorry I am not here to preach or to lead anyone anyplace and am not about to condemn a specific religion for what they preach.

I find that a bit questionable Amos, in light of your scathing(to protestants) posts. Quarentine? evil bugs?

lpetrich · 11-10-2002, 05:51 PM

GeoTheo, I suggest that you not take Amos's comments too literally. In fact, they often seem so totally off-the-wall to me that I'm at a loss for words.

11-10-2002, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeoTheo:


I find that a bit questionable Amos, in light of your scathing(to protestants) posts. Quarentine? evil bugs?

Yes but protestantism is not a religion like Baptist or Lutheran or Mennonite. Each of these are good in their own ways and have good people in them, do good works, are good neighbors and so on. Then, after all of this is said, I must add that they are wrong in facing the people in the wrong direction as righteous believers instead of lost sinners who are in need of salvation. In fact, the very word salvation should not even be part of their vocabulary but should be and remain the mystery of faith to be unfolded on its own and once you do that you are a Catholic.

11-11-2002, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lpetrich:
GeoTheo, I suggest that you not take Amos's comments too literally. In fact, they often seem so totally off-the-wall to me that I'm at a loss for words.

When Peter said: "Aren't thou the Messiah? Jesus told them to tell no-one. So here we have a true Christian telling us how to behave if we are anything like him. In other words, we don't profess to be saved.

The apostels once asked Jesus (after the eye of the needle parable) "then who can be saved?" to indicate they they were not saved while they did all of 'those things' none of us ever do! Yet we as protestants claim to be saved and secure.

In Rev.3:17 it says "You [the lukewarm] keep saying 'I am so rich and secure that I want for nothing.' Little do you realize how wretched you are, how pitiable and poor, how naked and blnd!"

Protestants boast about their paradox sinful yet saved and will go to the ends of the world to quench the pains inflicted by this paradox.

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11-10-2002, 05:51 PM	#26
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	GeoTheo, I suggest that you not take Amos's comments too literally. In fact, they often seem so totally off-the-wall to me that I'm at a loss for words.

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