lpetrich

I had not been raised a Fundie, but many of you people had been raised in some Fundie church. I wonder how much of a perspective these guys have.

In a Library page, Mr. Barker(?) talks about the Fundies having a conception of history that is mostly a Bibletime followed by recent centuries, almost as if all the time in the middle had not happened. Is that common?

Xianity had been mostly Catholic-like during that time, which leads me to wonder what Fundies tend to say about Catholicism amongst themselves. I can imagine them saying that Catholicism is polytheistic and idolatrous, but do they usually go far as Jack Chick?

In particular, I wonder how they relate to miracles allegedly worked by Catholic saints and their relics. At least to the extent that they devote any thought to that question.

Gemma Therese

I know Chick believes (or preaches) all these things are demonic in nature.

Gemma Therese

Bible Humper

They need to justify believing in a religion which evolved out of demon worship then, it seems a tad odd for them to put any faith in a book that had been in the hands of vile sorcerers for centuries before the rest of the world was even allowed to read the damn thing.

Then again, if their beliefs had any relationship with sound logic they would have discarded them ages ago.

Amos

At least all "salvation message" protestants do not regard Catholics as Christians and are very eager to save them in Jesus' name. As seen from their side Catholics are a "good catch" and will someday become a trophy in their mansion in heaven (we think they will prove to be their "filthy rags").

During the period prior to the printing press protestants trace their apostolic tradition on the anathema side of the Chuch and will boast about it. We agree and therefore nothing has changed.

Protestants often like the candles and icons but they themselves do not have any. Icons are inspired messages and they all have a meaning to be contemplated (or even just observed) by the believers. Through these messages we communicate with the saints in heaven (because icons are inspired mesages).

For example, the advent wreath is round and has four candles to be lit one each week as we appoach Christmas. The third candle to be lit is white while the other three are purple. This wreath resembles our advent period that leads towards our Christ-mass event. The purple is descibed in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.

To make this short, protestants will copy this wreath but ignore the white candle (and will often make it square in "protest"). In Catholicism the white candle stands for "a glimmer of hope" that becomes our Christ-mass star to lead the wise men to our personal Epiphany.

To the Church the absence if this white candle indicates that there is no hope for protestants just as there was no hope for the rich man.

Strawberry

I know I had a conversation with my dad when I was about 16 that I found a little surprising. Dad's an educated man, fairly liberal--he has a Ph.D and had 15 years of university teaching experience before he had a change of heart and became a minister. Anyway, he said something about he had "questions as to whether Catholics are really Christians."

I pointed out that the Catholic Church was the only Christian Church for 1500 (?) years, and his very own Anabaptist movement was once just a tiny, heretical offshoot of that One True Church In Christ, Amen.

He said, "Oh." Pause. "I guess so."

Only time I ever argued a point about religion successfully with him. I cannot believe he never thought of that before, in all his questioning and disregarding his parents' New-Earth Creationism, etc. I still think maybe I misunderstood that conversation, because usually my father has thought these things through very clearly.

Amos

Annabaptist do not believe Catholics are Christians and do not recognize Catholic baptism (members are baptized into their flock).

Catholics are not self proclaimed Christians. Catholics are Catholic and at best are they christians-in-becoming (as in "you are the potter we are the clay)". In this sense are they much like Jesus who was also counted among the wicked. For example the question "are you a Christian" is never part of their vocabulary (except in America maybe to keep marauding protestant away from them).

Protestants count themeselves as righteous Christians first and then pray like hell to live up to that.

[ November 08, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]</p>

simian

Raised Catholic myself. It is really interesting how every denomination tries to claim to the the "original" Christianity. At least relatively speaking, the Catholic Church has an unbroken line of succession, the relics, and the history. So how do the other denominations claim to the the "original" Christianity?

I can only relate what I got from one of my friends who was raised Baptist (in the Chatanooga, TN area). Basically, in their mythology, all the early Christians were Baptists. Then the Roman pagans took over the religion, giving birth to the Catholic church. The real Christians were persecuted, killed, etc., and had to make their escape over the Alps in the dead of winter. Then they remained perfectly hidden for 1500 years (or whatever the number is), when they reappeared with the "real" Christianity.

And, you know, this mythology seems as believeable to me as the rest of the Christian mythology, so why not believe it too?

Simian

Godless Dave

Slightly OT, but I've heard Catholics claim the Roman Catholic church is the oldest church. But wouldn't the Greek Orthodox church be older? When Constantine established Christianity as the religion of the Roman empire the empire's capital was Constantinople, wasn't it? So the denomination based there would be the oldest still-extant Christian church.

simian

The Catholic church traces its roots all the way back to Peter, and has the ring to prove it. But I don't know the reasons for the split, or who is a better keeper of the mythology.

Simian

ManM

Godless Dave,
Both the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church share the same history up to 1000 AD or so. So, neither Church is historically older. The debate centers around which one deviated from the original Christianity, and of course the answer to that depends on who you ask.