Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Gringo · 11-21-2002, 08:01 PM

According to this <a href="http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20021121/sc_nm/science_dogs_dc_1" target="_blank">article</a>, all breeds of dogs, from chihuahua to every other breed, descended from a small number of wolves 15,000 years ago in East Asia. Pretty interesting, huh?

[ November 21, 2002: Message edited by: Gringo ]</p>

Daisy · 11-22-2002, 05:05 AM

What distinguishes a dog from a wolf? What is an interbreed considered to be?

Anyone know of a good article on this?

lpetrich · 11-22-2002, 05:39 AM

Here is <a href="http://www.ualberta.ca/~jzgurski/dog.htm" target="_blank">a nice article on the origin of dogs</a>; dogs differ from wolves in carrying puppy-like traits to greater age -- floppy ears, curved tails, barking, etc. They also breed twice a year instead of the wolflike once a year.

Those puppy-like features were selected as a result of selection for tameness and likeableness by their human masters, who have generally preferred to breed only well-behaved and likable dogs.

bluefugue · 11-22-2002, 06:12 AM

You know, I remember hearing something on NPR within the last few weeks that said some scientists believe dogs did not descend from wolves, because wolves are too difficult to domesticate. The piece suggested dogs descended from a different species of canine, but I don't remember the details.

Maybe new findings render such quibbles obsolete, I don't know.

Oolon Colluphid · 11-22-2002, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bluefugue:
<strong>You know, I remember hearing something on NPR within the last few weeks that said some scientists believe dogs did not descend from wolves, because wolves are too difficult to domesticate. The piece suggested dogs descended from a different species of canine, but I don't remember the details.

Maybe new findings render such quibbles obsolete, I don't know.</strong>

I�d be interested in any info on this, since the last I heard was that Canis familiaris had been reclassified as a subspecies of Canis lupus, ie Canis lupus familiaris. That is, dogs aren�t descended from wolves: they are wolves[/I].

Cheers, Darwin�s Terrier

[ November 22, 2002: Message edited by: Darwin's Terrier ]</p>

simian · 11-22-2002, 06:42 AM

If I remember correctly, the NPR broadcast mentioned singing somethings (wolves, dogs, something anyway). But it was an idea being put forward by somebody who was putting forth an idea that was not well accepted. I also remember seeing an article a few days ago stating that dogs may have been what finally allowed humans to cross the land bridge into north america. Something about hyenas being an issue, dogs being able to give warning when anything approaches. Dog skeletons turning up in Siberia 14k years ago - almost as soon as they were domesticated.

Please note I am working merely from memory here, but there should be enough info for somebody to find the articles if they wish to confirm or destroy my fragile view of my memory.

Simian

bluefugue · 11-22-2002, 08:27 AM

Quote:

If I remember correctly, the NPR broadcast mentioned singing somethings

Yeah, that's the one. At least I know I didn't hallucinate it.

DT -- next you'll be saying we *are* African apes.

Bible Humper · 11-22-2002, 08:53 AM

Quote:

DT -- next you'll be saying we *are* African apes.

I know, eh? What a chump!

lpetrich · 11-22-2002, 09:12 AM

Looking for "singing dog", I find a lot of references to "New Guinea Singing Dogs" -- are those the ones?

Like the Australian dingo, the NGSD has been only semi-tame, so that is why it was mentioned as being much like early domestic dogs.

lpetrich · 11-22-2002, 09:14 AM

Dogs are wolves in a cladistic sense, in which paraphyletic groups (those without some descendants) are not recognized. Which is what wild wolves would be in this case.

11-21-2002, 08:01 PM	#1
Gringo Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: WV Posts: 207	Dogs descended from Asian wolves According to this <a href="http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20021121/sc_nm/science_dogs_dc_1" target="_blank">article</a>, all breeds of dogs, from chihuahua to every other breed, descended from a small number of wolves 15,000 years ago in East Asia. Pretty interesting, huh? [ November 21, 2002: Message edited by: Gringo ]</p>

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11-22-2002, 05:05 AM	#2
Daisy Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Halfway out the door... Posts: 788	What distinguishes a dog from a wolf? What is an interbreed considered to be? Anyone know of a good article on this?

11-22-2002, 05:39 AM	#3
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	Here is <a href="http://www.ualberta.ca/~jzgurski/dog.htm" target="_blank">a nice article on the origin of dogs</a>; dogs differ from wolves in carrying puppy-like traits to greater age -- floppy ears, curved tails, barking, etc. They also breed twice a year instead of the wolflike once a year. Those puppy-like features were selected as a result of selection for tameness and likeableness by their human masters, who have generally preferred to breed only well-behaved and likable dogs.

11-22-2002, 06:12 AM	#4
bluefugue Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,427	You know, I remember hearing something on NPR within the last few weeks that said some scientists believe dogs did not descend from wolves, because wolves are too difficult to domesticate. The piece suggested dogs descended from a different species of canine, but I don't remember the details. Maybe new findings render such quibbles obsolete, I don't know.

11-22-2002, 06:42 AM	#6
simian Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 1,924	If I remember correctly, the NPR broadcast mentioned singing somethings (wolves, dogs, something anyway). But it was an idea being put forward by somebody who was putting forth an idea that was not well accepted. I also remember seeing an article a few days ago stating that dogs may have been what finally allowed humans to cross the land bridge into north america. Something about hyenas being an issue, dogs being able to give warning when anything approaches. Dog skeletons turning up in Siberia 14k years ago - almost as soon as they were domesticated. Please note I am working merely from memory here, but there should be enough info for somebody to find the articles if they wish to confirm or destroy my fragile view of my memory. Simian

11-22-2002, 09:12 AM	#9
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	Looking for "singing dog", I find a lot of references to "New Guinea Singing Dogs" -- are those the ones? Like the Australian dingo, the NGSD has been only semi-tame, so that is why it was mentioned as being much like early domestic dogs.

11-22-2002, 09:14 AM	#10
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	Dogs are wolves in a cladistic sense, in which paraphyletic groups (those without some descendants) are not recognized. Which is what wild wolves would be in this case.

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