Freethought & Rationalism Archive

gcameron · 03-23-2003, 03:41 PM

Under which circumstances does papal infallibility apply? Or is that doctrine no longer in effect?

Doubting Didymus · 03-23-2003, 03:46 PM

Please keep the discussion as far from the war as possible, unless you can think of a way it relates to evolution/creation. I know its a hot issue, but there's a whole forum for it, with a bunch of extra moderators assigned to it to cope with the volume and vitriol of posts on this topic.

lpetrich · 03-23-2003, 03:47 PM

I think that Mr. Cipriani considers popes infallible only when doing so is convenient for Mr. Cipriani.

Albert Cipriani · 03-23-2003, 05:41 PM

Dear Gcameron,
You ask:

Quote:

Under which circumstances does papal infallibility apply?

Like junk-DNA, most papal pronouncements are unexpressed infallibility. For his words to code infallibly, they must at the very least concern a matter of faith or morals. That gets them into the to mRNA status, which means, all good Catholics must reverently listen to those words.

But even the Pope�s words regarding what might be considered matters of faith or morals are not infallible, are not ex cathedra, unless they explicitly state that:
1) all Catholics everywhere and forever are bound by them
2) the pope is speaking authoritatively in his official capacity as pope

To quote the First Vatican Council of 1870, papal infallibility was defined as follows:

Quote:

We teach and define that it is a dogma divinely revealed: that the Roman Pontiff, when he speaks ex cathedra, that is, when, in discharge of the office of pastor and teacher of all Christians, by virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine regarding faith or morals to be held by the universal Church, is, by the divine assistance promised to him in Blessed Peter, possessed of that infallibility with which the divine Redeemer willed that His Church should be endowed in defining doctrine regarding faith or morals; and that, therefore, such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are of themselves, and not from the consent of the Church, irreformable.

Ipetrich opines:

Quote:

I think that Mr. Cipriani considers popes infallible only when doing so is convenient for Mr. Cipriani.

I think Ipity is uppity. Tis a pity. � Albert the Traditional Catholic 3/23/03

Doubting Didymus · 03-23-2003, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Albert Cipriani
Like junk-DNA, most papal pronouncements are unexpressed infallibility. For his words to code infallibly, they must at the very least concern a matter of faith or morals. That gets them into the to mRNA status, which means, all good Catholics must reverently listen to those words.

Nice try, Albert, but I really don't see the discussion of papal infallability as it applies to the war in iraq fitting neatly into the evolution/creation forum, with or without genome transcription analogies. I'm going to nicely ask all parties that future posts on these topics be taken to the appropriate forum.

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03-23-2003, 03:41 PM	#11
gcameron Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Western U.S.A. Posts: 293	Under which circumstances does papal infallibility apply? Or is that doctrine no longer in effect?

03-23-2003, 03:46 PM	#12
Doubting Didymus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: East Coast. Australia. Posts: 5,455	Please keep the discussion as far from the war as possible, unless you can think of a way it relates to evolution/creation. I know its a hot issue, but there's a whole forum for it, with a bunch of extra moderators assigned to it to cope with the volume and vitriol of posts on this topic.

03-23-2003, 03:47 PM	#13
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	I think that Mr. Cipriani considers popes infallible only when doing so is convenient for Mr. Cipriani.

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