River

Well, the Qur'an talks about a regional Noah's Flood, not the more mythological Global Flood which all other religions talk about. Even Scientists have labelled the first as " Eve". Its not exactly regressive to believe in the first humans...or is it?

River

Many of the philosophies, technologies, and sciences utilised in the Western World is the direct result of Islam's intervention. However, most people have a very very poor sense of History ( and the fact that most social studies textbooks omit 1,000 years of Islamic history). I am not going to devote a whole post explaining exactly what Islam contributed. Besides, there are many neurotics here who will simply say but...but...but...the arabs borrowed from indians....or stuff like they borrowed from the Greeks...then someone points out that the Greeks borrowed from the Egyptians...and all this Jargon. The Truth is if Islam didnt come about when it did , there is a huge possiblity that we may have been stuck in the Dark Ages (still) or have recovered much more slowly.

Magus55

Correction, you believe that Adam and Eve never existed. Its never been disproven. Gotta be careful with those statements from fact.

emotional

Correction, I don't believe, I accept that Adam and Eve never existed. I accept the evidence that points to our descent from ape-like ancestors, meaning that we are not descended from two fully human parents.

It has. There's DNA and bones and similarities to show it. Or care to tell us why God made us so similar to apes?

sergeyvladimirovich

OK, some talking got started-- good.

I, on my part, will offer some concrete quotes. River's opinion would be especially appreciated. I hope you are not a Quran-only Muslim of Khalifah variety and won't say how Hadiths don't count (if you are, you are one of the few Muslims who don't have any influence and have to hide in the West from their peaceful brothers).

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1. Here a man kills a woman for talking nasty about the prophet.
The prophet says it's ok.
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Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4348

Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:
A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was informed about it.
He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.
He sat before the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.
Thereupon the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.
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2. A shorter version of the same thing-- it's ok to kill someone who disagrees with the Prophet
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Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4349

Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib:
A Jewess used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. A man strangled her till she died. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) declared that no recompense was payable for her blood.
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3. Maybe this will give a hint of why apostacy is illegal in most Muslim countries, why a non-Muslim's blood money is much smaller than a Muslim's, as well as killing unfaithful people.
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Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4339

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) Said: The blood of a Muslim man who testifies that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle should not lawfully be shed except only for one of three reasons: a man who committed fornication after marriage, in which case he should be stoned; one who goes forth to fight with Allah and His Apostle, in which case he should be killed or crucified or exiled from the land; or one who commits murder for which he is killed.
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OK, some Hadith really do depict Mohammad as a brutal tyrant. Hardly are the pearls from above sympathetic to Western humanistic values either...So if you subscribe to these Hadith, please don't waste time and say how Islam is humanistic and progressive. If you don't, it would be better if you influenced some of the mislead Muslims back East-- this would save a lot of lifes!

IF anybody's interested, there are lots of other intersting quotes from the Hadith at

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/hadith.htm

Grad Student Humanist

None of Islam's past accomplishments proves your point that Islam is centuries ahead of other religions. Perhaps at one point it was, but so what? At one point the Mayans were well ahead of other peoples as well; now they're gone. Islam isn't any more advanced currently than other religions, and Islamic societies are, by and large, well behind most others.

River

Islam is still the only religion in the world that is pro-Science. This I cant say about other religious traditions.

River

-sergeyvladimirovich


Not all Hadiths are Sahih or of Sound quality. Hadiths are the work of thousands and thousands of humans. Since they are written by humans many contain contradictions. However, there is a scholarly field called " Science of Hadiths' which carefully traces the authenticity and reliability of each chain of Transmission. For, example the Hadiths you portrayed where the Prophet rebuked the old women is most likely a fabrication. I have heard an authentic Hadith where an old women would through garbage at the Prophet for years. One day the women was not there and The Prophet was worried and went out to help her, even though he was tormented for years.


I am not Khilafii.....But I do believe that the Qur'an is the Word of G-d and Hadiths should be read with a grain of salt . If they contradict the Qur'an they should be discarded.

emotional

What about Sikhism and Bahaism? They're pro-science too.

In fact, there isn't a single religion whose followers claim to be anti-science. Christian young-earth creationists, perverse though they may be, don't claim to be anti-science, they claim to be against a materialistic interpretation of nature (that's what they say evolution is). You'll never hear any religionist boasting how his religion has no scientific support or clashes with science.

In fact, I think I'm the only one on these boards who admits to hating science and choosing faith as opposed to it.

Sci_Fidelity

Pro- science? There was an edict issued not too many years ago stating that anyone who doesn't think the earth is flat is an infidel! (And we all know what happens to infidels.)