Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Demigawd · 09-11-2002, 01:38 PM

<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/09/11/offbeat.2headed.turtle.ap/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/09/11/offbeat.2headed.turtle.ap/index.html</a>

I'm not a scientist, nor do I play one on TV, so the concept of a living creature having two heads is mind-boggling. What sort of ramifications does this evolutionary fluke have on the concept of consciousness? I assume this turtle has a brain per head, which merge into a single spinal cord. Would the two brains and their respective sensory organs work in tandem or would one be primary? Or would they be in conflict, each fighting for control?

pz · 09-11-2002, 02:08 PM

This happens all the time.

There's even a pair of human conjoined twins who are essentially in this condition.

[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: pz ]

Amen-Moses · 09-11-2002, 02:12 PM

Surely just a case of a conjoined twin? (siamese twin for the layman)

Amen-Moses

Demigawd · 09-11-2002, 02:44 PM

Ah, I did a search on Google for conjoined twins, and found out about parapagus twins which that (those) turtle(s) seem(s) to be. Abigail and Brittany Hensel, as an example, came up quite alot, and further searches on them answered a huge chunk of my questions. Very fascinating.

Duvenoy · 09-11-2002, 03:16 PM

Two-headed turtles, while very unusual, are not all that rare. I read of a man in, I think, AZ who actually collects them and has 5 or 6 of various ages and species.

A two-headed turtle will tend to be smaller than others of it's species. Also, the heads will compete for food, if they are on long enough necks (this varies). Almost invaribly, their shells will be malformed to some degree. Most, if not all, have problems moving in a positive direction, which is why they are seldom encountered in the field. They are easy catches for predators.

As for the nuerological aspect of two-headed reptiles, I don't know. But these animals are purely reactionary; food = eat, predator = flee. I except Crocodilians from this. Crocs have been shown that they can be conditioned to identify their keepers, perform 'tricks', and even learn a spoken name.

doov

Doubting Didymus · 09-11-2002, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Crocs have been shown that they can be conditioned to identify their keepers, perform 'tricks', and even learn a spoken name.

Really? That makes them about as smart as cats!

RufusAtticus · 09-11-2002, 04:19 PM

The Georgia State Capitol has a small museum of Georgia in it. One exhibit is a two-headed calf and a two-headed snake. It's a cool thing to see when you are in 4th grade.

[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: RufusAtticus ]

Duvenoy · 09-11-2002, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Really? That makes them about as smart as cats!

Well, cats are reptiles, aren't they? Or are they echinoderms? It's a little confusing as my cat shows much of the behavior of both.

doov

[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: Duvenoy ]

MrDarwin · 09-11-2002, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Doubting Didymus:
Really? That makes them about as smart as cats!

Speaking of which, how about a <a href="http://www.phillyburbs.com/couriertimes/packages/0609twofaced.shtml" target="_blank">two-faced cat?</a>

Demigawd · 09-11-2002, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrDarwin:


Speaking of which, how about a <a href="http://www.phillyburbs.com/couriertimes/packages/0609twofaced.shtml" target="_blank">two-faced cat?</a>

Cats, including two-faced cats, are cool.

09-11-2002, 01:38 PM	#1
Demigawd Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: On a sailing ship to nowhere, leaving any place Posts: 2,254	Two-headed Turtle <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/09/11/offbeat.2headed.turtle.ap/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/09/11/offbeat.2headed.turtle.ap/index.html</a> I'm not a scientist, nor do I play one on TV, so the concept of a living creature having two heads is mind-boggling. What sort of ramifications does this evolutionary fluke have on the concept of consciousness? I assume this turtle has a brain per head, which merge into a single spinal cord. Would the two brains and their respective sensory organs work in tandem or would one be primary? Or would they be in conflict, each fighting for control?

09-11-2002, 02:08 PM	#2
pz Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Morris, MN Posts: 3,341	This happens all the time. There's even a pair of human conjoined twins who are essentially in this condition. [ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: pz ]</p>

09-11-2002, 04:19 PM	#7
RufusAtticus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NCSU Posts: 5,853	The Georgia State Capitol has a small museum of Georgia in it. One exhibit is a two-headed calf and a two-headed snake. It's a cool thing to see when you are in 4th grade. [ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: RufusAtticus ]</p>

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09-11-2002, 02:12 PM	#3
Amen-Moses Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Portsmouth, England Posts: 4,652	Surely just a case of a conjoined twin? (siamese twin for the layman) Amen-Moses

09-11-2002, 02:44 PM	#4
Demigawd Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: On a sailing ship to nowhere, leaving any place Posts: 2,254	Ah, I did a search on Google for conjoined twins, and found out about parapagus twins which that (those) turtle(s) seem(s) to be. Abigail and Brittany Hensel, as an example, came up quite alot, and further searches on them answered a huge chunk of my questions. Very fascinating.

09-11-2002, 03:16 PM	#5
Duvenoy Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Just another hick from the sticks. Posts: 1,108	Two-headed turtles, while very unusual, are not all that rare. I read of a man in, I think, AZ who actually collects them and has 5 or 6 of various ages and species. A two-headed turtle will tend to be smaller than others of it's species. Also, the heads will compete for food, if they are on long enough necks (this varies). Almost invaribly, their shells will be malformed to some degree. Most, if not all, have problems moving in a positive direction, which is why they are seldom encountered in the field. They are easy catches for predators. As for the nuerological aspect of two-headed reptiles, I don't know. But these animals are purely reactionary; food = eat, predator = flee. I except Crocodilians from this. Crocs have been shown that they can be conditioned to identify their keepers, perform 'tricks', and even learn a spoken name. doov

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