mike_decock

Just for the sake of argument, let's say that God is by nature a murderer and fornicator. Would murder and fornication then be defined as "good"?

-Mike...

Magus55

First of all, you blasphemy God and are ungrateful on a daily basis, why would this shock me? Second, who said suicide sends you to hell? Suicide is a sin just like any other. If you are saved by Jesus Christ and have faith in him, but for some reason get too depressed and make a poor choice by killing yourself, you are still covered by Jesus' blood. Now God may be disappointed or upset with you for doing it, and it could cost you rewards in Heaven, but i don't think you will go straight to Hell for it.

Jesus died to save humanity from their sins. He was the only human on earth perfect enough to bring redemption to sinners. He didn't do it because He had to, He did it because He loved humanity so much, that he didn't want us to die in our own sins. The Romans killed Jesus, so it wasn't suicide. By dying on the cross and then being ressurected, Jesus conquered the death sentence we all have, so that any who believe in Him gain life instead of death. That was the purpose of God coming to Earth. To carry our sins on the cross and conquer death. It wasn't suicide, it was giving His human life up for Humanity. Jesus all came to Earth to spread his ministry and how to treat humanity and God. He preached the greatest moral and righteous code on Earth. Dying for our sins was his ultimate gift, but it wasn't the only reason he came to Earth.

Vinnie

I define murder and fornication in that sense as bad. Ergo, its like saying what if a circle has 376 degrees.

Vinnie

mike_decock

I think that's avoiding the question. A circle could have 376 degrees if a degree was 1/376th of a circle. It's a matter of definition. Just like defining "good" as "god-like": any arbitrary property God has would be defined as good.

-Mike...

Vinnie

Your question tries to change reality from my perspective. I consider it meaningless but someone else may be interested in it.

Its like saying what if a circle has four right angles. Wiggle out of that one

I'd just call it a square.

Vinnie

mike_decock

If we defined a circle as an object that has four right angles, you would call it a circle.

When you identify "good" as "god-like". The definition of "good" is based on whatever arbitrary properties God has.

-Mike...

Magus55

Well since its impossible for the God of the bible to be a fornicator or murderer by his own divine nature, the point is moot. Thats like saying a square circle. It can't exist by its own nature.

Pogue

Well Magus,

I know it has been thrown out there before, but I'll throw it out there again. Yes, goodness IS arbitrary as it pertains to God, and you know it. I.E., genocide is okay if God commands it, but for man to commit it is a sin..

???

I have heard theists attempt to explain away that fact by saying that those who were the victims of genocide were "sinners" and "deserved" it... Hmmmmm... Sounds a lot like what almost every country in the Mid East thinks of the U.S, Britain, Australia, etc.. Oh yeaaaaahh.. And it is also their justification for terror tactics..

And I suppose the children killed were "sinners" too, eh? Oooooppps, I forgot.. God was being kind to them by killing them, therefore not allowing them to die of starvation or thirst. And he was also being kind to the firstborns of Egypt by insuring they did not grow up as sinners.

Seems like a bunch of superstitious bunko to me. Theists have no proof of God's existence, let alone proof for what motives he/she/it had when murdering millions of infants. Murder is murder.. If someone/thing is told/commanded to kill millions of people/infants... It is still murder. Justify it however you feel you need to in order to keep your image of a merciful God..

But it is still murder..

Pogue

winstonjen

Um, can anyone say, "The 'divine impregnation' of Mary"? Or "the global genocidal flood?"

Jesus wanted the Romans to kill him. The fact that Jesus didn't nail himself on the cross is irrelevant. Jesus didn't take any steps to prevent his death.

Well, Magus, that certainly is uncommon from a Christian viewpoint. May I ask what teachings/verses led you to that conclusion? Most theists, especially Christians, that I have debated with, say that life is a 'gift from god' and to throw that gift away is unacceptable. To me, that makes no sense, because I never asked to be born in the first place.