Freethought & Rationalism Archive

never been there · 08-25-2002, 10:22 AM

A question occurred to me the other day: in Hinduism and other religions that believe in reincarnation, how is the evaluation of the past life and assignment of the new incarnation pictured? Is it a formal trial of the "Throne of Judgement" variety, or does the Universe, being co-existent with God-ness, just work so that one is born to the appropriate life?

How about Buddhism and Sikhism?

hinduwoman · 08-31-2002, 05:07 PM

Well in hinduism your soul stands before Yama, the god of Death and Judgement. His clerk reads out your record and you are allowed to plead in your defense of your bad deeds. Then Yama decides how much time you will spend in hell, how much in heaven and what your next brith is going to be like.
In some stories you get to choose where you will be born.

never been there · 09-02-2002, 06:08 PM

Thanks, hinduwoman! For a while there I was afraid my topic was going to die and be condemned to Limbo!

Corgan Sow · 09-04-2002, 04:27 AM

wow, that is SO much better from being tortured for eternity (

at Jehovah

)

Dr. Jagan Mohan · 09-06-2002, 12:40 PM

Hinduwoman's answer might be 'appropriate' in popular tribalistic Hinduism which depends on 'Puranas' or Mythology, but when it comes to Philosphical Hinduism, the answer is outright Wrong and misleading.

I will try to answer that question from a SriVaishnavite (Vishistadwaita or Qualified Monism) point of view:

What is judgement? It is a decision about an action compared against a standard.
In Hinduism we do NOT have something like EVIL! Simple evil DOESNOT exist.
Therefore the question of judgement simply doesnot arise at all.

Our Souls are identical with the Universal Soul whom we conveniently call 'GOD'. Who can judge whom? Man and Life is an illusion... a fledging dream that this soul of ours is dreaming... a little play of the Supersoul.
In short, the Soul is Supersoul. Part of what we call GOD. So how can God judge a part of Himself?

According to the Law of Karma, every action has a reaction. Period.
Every action, thought and notion has its reaction. life is a cycle of actions and reactions. Good Actions bring good reactions, bad ones, sorrow.
Our lives are moulded by ourselves unconsiosnessly. Every second we are deciding our future... this continues right after death also.. we continue to be born as per our decisions and actions... we are what we were and we will be what we decide to be.

THe Law of Karma is a complex truth that will take a long paragraph to expain.

There are many factors that influence our future lives and reincarnations. In short, it should be understood that we are continously EVOLVING... Life is an experience of this material world and universe. Our evolution can be for the betterment of our souls, or can be 'downgrading'.

In DIRECT contradiction of Semetic religions, Hinduism does not DAMN anyone for eternity, nor does GOD play Judge, police and Dictator. Neither does Evil or Satan exist. Eternal Hell is bullshit. Eternal Hell is sheer stupidity.

[ September 06, 2002: Message edited by: Dr. Jagan Mohan ]</p>

never been there · 09-06-2002, 07:00 PM

Thank you also to Dr. Mohan. I suspected there were both folkloric and philosophical views on this among Hindus. Actually, one sees a similar range of views among Christians, IMO.

09-06-2002, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Jagan Mohan:
<strong>

In DIRECT contradiction of Semetic religions, Hinduism does not DAMN anyone for eternity, nor does GOD play Judge, police and Dictator. Neither does Evil or Satan exist. Eternal Hell is bullshit. Eternal Hell is sheer stupidity.

[ September 06, 2002: Message edited by: Dr. Jagan Mohan ]</strong>

But Mr. Mohan, if life is an illusion why can hell not be part of this illusion? May I suggest that judgement and hell is part of life lived in this illusion and hell is eternal only because it prevails in our unconscious awareness wherein we are not consciously aware of the passing of time. This is found in Rev.15:11 "There shall be no rest by day or by night for those who worship the beast or its image or accept the mark of its name." Who, might I suggest, are these saintly people? Verse 12, "Those who [try to] keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus." In other words, the "saved sinners" are those with no rest by day or by night and endure eternal torment while in this life that is and remains an illusion (their amount of suffering depends on the strength of the cup of Gods wrath from which they drank, verse 10).

If we are the continuity of God (our soul is one with supersoul) and have come to this realization we will have the key to the kingdom and from this lofty heaven (oneness with supersoul is real), we can judge the living and the death of those within the illusion of life.

So our God can judge but does not proclaim a judgement. We will judge ourselves under the name Lord God because in seeking to be justified we are convicted as sinners (Gal.3:17) and from here our soul must become one with supersoul (Lord God must unite with God as in "My Lord AND my God").

We have good and bad Karma under the Cardinal Virtues and Capital sins. In addition we have sins as a tool for the conviction of sin while we are just dreaming that life is good.

So there are no contradictions in our religions and maybe you've just been reading the wrong material on our religion.

Amos

hinduwoman · 09-07-2002, 06:03 PM

Jagan Mohan, you seem to assume that between popular Hinduism and philosophical Hinduism there is a huge gap. There is not because the two traditions keep on feeding one another.
Hinduism might not have a principle of evil/Satan as in Christianity, but certain actions are very definitely called adharmic and for them souls are punished. What do you call murder of innocents if not evil, semantics notwithstanding? Everyone is God, but there is nothing to stop the Yama-aspect of God from judging human-aspect of God.
Reward and punishment and rebirth is where the law of Karma come in --- stuff happens because of what you have done and the universe cannot function otherwise.

GeoTheo · 09-13-2002, 09:49 AM

Amos,
I was thinking along those lines today in philosophy class. Our proffessor was presenting the Indian philosophical and religious tradition and briefly compared the aspect of "salvation" to the western monotheistic traditions of Islam and Christianity. He said Hindus, Buddhists and Jainists generally think there are many paths wheras Christians and Muslems believe that one must see things their way or be condemned to hell.
So then Christians are exclusivists. I was then thinking of Universalists within Christianity and comparing them to hindus. I feel that hindus are exclusivist in a sense because they believe few people achieve salvation. (at least in this lifetime) So, I don't see how Hinduism is more inclusive at all. Christians at least generally think everyone at least has a chance of being saved in this life and Universalists think all will be saved. Wheras a hindu has no reason to believe they will be saved anytime in the next 1000 lives.

karthik · 09-13-2002, 12:48 PM

Theo,
I think you are confused about the meaning of exclusivity. Hinduism says you can reach salvation irrespective of your schools of belief. I am sure thats not the case with christianity. Can you cite me sources which state Hinduism has a quota system for letting people reach enlightenment??

08-25-2002, 10:22 AM	#1
never been there Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winnipeg, MB Posts: 2,144	"Judgement" for Hindus? A question occurred to me the other day: in Hinduism and other religions that believe in reincarnation, how is the evaluation of the past life and assignment of the new incarnation pictured? Is it a formal trial of the "Throne of Judgement" variety, or does the Universe, being co-existent with God-ness, just work so that one is born to the appropriate life? How about Buddhism and Sikhism?

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08-31-2002, 05:07 PM	#2
hinduwoman Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: India Posts: 6,977	Well in hinduism your soul stands before Yama, the god of Death and Judgement. His clerk reads out your record and you are allowed to plead in your defense of your bad deeds. Then Yama decides how much time you will spend in hell, how much in heaven and what your next brith is going to be like. In some stories you get to choose where you will be born.

09-02-2002, 06:08 PM	#3
never been there Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winnipeg, MB Posts: 2,144	Thanks, hinduwoman! For a while there I was afraid my topic was going to die and be condemned to Limbo!

09-04-2002, 04:27 AM	#4
Corgan Sow Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 1,537	wow, that is SO much better from being tortured for eternity ( at Jehovah )

09-06-2002, 12:40 PM	#5
Dr. Jagan Mohan Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Presently on the 'move' :) Posts: 98	Hinduwoman's answer might be 'appropriate' in popular tribalistic Hinduism which depends on 'Puranas' or Mythology, but when it comes to Philosphical Hinduism, the answer is outright Wrong and misleading. I will try to answer that question from a SriVaishnavite (Vishistadwaita or Qualified Monism) point of view: What is judgement? It is a decision about an action compared against a standard. In Hinduism we do NOT have something like EVIL! Simple evil DOESNOT exist. Therefore the question of judgement simply doesnot arise at all. Our Souls are identical with the Universal Soul whom we conveniently call 'GOD'. Who can judge whom? Man and Life is an illusion... a fledging dream that this soul of ours is dreaming... a little play of the Supersoul. In short, the Soul is Supersoul. Part of what we call GOD. So how can God judge a part of Himself? According to the Law of Karma, every action has a reaction. Period. Every action, thought and notion has its reaction. life is a cycle of actions and reactions. Good Actions bring good reactions, bad ones, sorrow. Our lives are moulded by ourselves unconsiosnessly. Every second we are deciding our future... this continues right after death also.. we continue to be born as per our decisions and actions... we are what we were and we will be what we decide to be. THe Law of Karma is a complex truth that will take a long paragraph to expain. There are many factors that influence our future lives and reincarnations. In short, it should be understood that we are continously EVOLVING... Life is an experience of this material world and universe. Our evolution can be for the betterment of our souls, or can be 'downgrading'. In DIRECT contradiction of Semetic religions, Hinduism does not DAMN anyone for eternity, nor does GOD play Judge, police and Dictator. Neither does Evil or Satan exist. Eternal Hell is bullshit. Eternal Hell is sheer stupidity. [ September 06, 2002: Message edited by: Dr. Jagan Mohan ]</p>

09-06-2002, 07:00 PM	#6
never been there Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winnipeg, MB Posts: 2,144	Thank you also to Dr. Mohan. I suspected there were both folkloric and philosophical views on this among Hindus. Actually, one sees a similar range of views among Christians, IMO.

09-07-2002, 06:03 PM	#8
hinduwoman Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: India Posts: 6,977	Jagan Mohan, you seem to assume that between popular Hinduism and philosophical Hinduism there is a huge gap. There is not because the two traditions keep on feeding one another. Hinduism might not have a principle of evil/Satan as in Christianity, but certain actions are very definitely called adharmic and for them souls are punished. What do you call murder of innocents if not evil, semantics notwithstanding? Everyone is God, but there is nothing to stop the Yama-aspect of God from judging human-aspect of God. Reward and punishment and rebirth is where the law of Karma come in --- stuff happens because of what you have done and the universe cannot function otherwise.

09-13-2002, 09:49 AM	#9
GeoTheo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bemidji Posts: 1,197	Amos, I was thinking along those lines today in philosophy class. Our proffessor was presenting the Indian philosophical and religious tradition and briefly compared the aspect of "salvation" to the western monotheistic traditions of Islam and Christianity. He said Hindus, Buddhists and Jainists generally think there are many paths wheras Christians and Muslems believe that one must see things their way or be condemned to hell. So then Christians are exclusivists. I was then thinking of Universalists within Christianity and comparing them to hindus. I feel that hindus are exclusivist in a sense because they believe few people achieve salvation. (at least in this lifetime) So, I don't see how Hinduism is more inclusive at all. Christians at least generally think everyone at least has a chance of being saved in this life and Universalists think all will be saved. Wheras a hindu has no reason to believe they will be saved anytime in the next 1000 lives.

09-13-2002, 12:48 PM	#10
karthik Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 277	Theo, I think you are confused about the meaning of exclusivity. Hinduism says you can reach salvation irrespective of your schools of belief. I am sure thats not the case with christianity. Can you cite me sources which state Hinduism has a quota system for letting people reach enlightenment??

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