Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ted Hoffman · 12-18-2002, 07:06 AM

I have been reading CTMU and following the discussion <a href="http://www.arn.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=13;t=000483;p=2" target="_blank">At this ARN thread</a> and my brain is now hurting. I havent seen a discussion about it here ate infidels. Whats your take on it?

Does anyone here understand it? What exactly might Chris Langan be up to with the sophistry and somewhat "arbitrary" generation of words and concepts?
And whats up with these UltraHIQ societies? They smack of those ideas the Nazis had...

Principia · 12-18-2002, 07:08 AM

Intensity,

Try:

1) <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=58&t=001755" target="_blank">http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=58&t=001755</a>

2) <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=58&t=001781" target="_blank">http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=58&t=001781</a>

3) <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=58&t=001721" target="_blank">http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=58&t=001721</a>

for starters... <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Undercurrent · 12-18-2002, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Intensity:

And whats up with these UltraHIQ societies?

The people who join those societies are like people who buy extra-large super-king-size condoms. Doesn't really say anything except about the size of their egos.

m.

pz · 12-18-2002, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Intensity:
I have been reading CTMU and following the discussion <a href="http://www.arn.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=13;t=000483;p=2" target="_blank">At this ARN thread</a> and my brain is now hurting. I havent seen a discussion about it here ate infidels. Whats your take on it?

Does anyone here understand it? What exactly might Chris Langan be up to with the sophistry and somewhat "arbitrary" generation of words and concepts?
And whats up with these UltraHIQ societies? They smack of those ideas the Nazis had...

Yeah, I think quite a few of us understand it. It's empty blather, pretentious pontifications from a massive ego. Don't waste your time with it.

I have the same impression of those societies. They are infatuated with eugenics and their own over-inflated sense of importance.

theyeti · 12-18-2002, 08:21 AM

The only reason anyone cares about IQ is that it's correlated to likelihood of academic and financial sucess, among other things. But that correlation disappears entirely when you get to the "ultra-high" IQ ranges. Chris Langan is, to put it mildly, a complete loser. He has accomplished absolutely nothing in his life, despite his IQ, and he blames all of his failures on other people. He deserves to be laughed at, nothing more.

theyeti

Ted Hoffman · 12-18-2002, 08:22 AM

Thanks principia for the links.
And everyone else.
Phew!

Whatup? · 12-23-2002, 03:28 PM

Anyone been able to crack this CTMU nut? Does Dembski really buy into it? Looks like a bunch of pseudosophisticated mumbo jumbo to me.

I noticed that the CTMU article at Dembski's journal has changed since I first printed it out. Some references were recently added and others were rearranged. Has anyone found other changes?

Despite the recent changes they still indicate a release date in September. Guess Ol' Dembski just can't admit that evolution exists.

<a href="http://www.iscid.org/papers/Langan_CTMU_092902.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.iscid.org/papers/Langan_CTMU_092902.pdf</a>

excreationist · 12-23-2002, 04:08 PM

I wonder if anyone (here or elsewhere) agrees with this part of CTMU:

<a href="http://www.ctmu.org/CTMU/Q&A/Archive.html#Souls" target="_blank">Q & A - CTMU and souls</a>:

Quote:

Does the CTMU allow for the existence of souls and reincarnation?

A: From the CTMU, there emerge multiple levels of consciousness. Human temporal consciousness is the level with which we're familiar; global (parallel) consciousness is that of the universe as a whole. The soul is the connection between the two...the embedment of the former in the latter.

In the CTMU, reality is viewed as a profoundly self-contained, self-referential kind of "language", and languages have syntaxes. Because self-reference is an abstract generalization of consciousness - consciousness is the attribute by virtue of which we possess self-awareness - conscious agents are "sublanguages" possessing their own cognitive syntaxes. Now, global consciousness is based on a complete cognitive syntax in which our own incomplete syntax can be embedded, and this makes human consciousness transparent to it; in contrast, our ability to access the global level is restricted due to our syntactic limitations.

Thus, while we are transparent to the global syntax of the global conscious agency "God", we cannot see everything that God can see. Whereas God perceives one total act of creation in a parallel distributed fashion, with everything in perfect superposition, we are localized in spacetime and perceive reality only in a succession of locally creative moments. This parallelism has powerful implications. When a human being dies, his entire history remains embedded in the timeless level of consciousness...the Deic level. In that sense, he or she is preserved by virtue of his or her "soul". And since the universe is a self-refining entity, that which is teleologically valid in the informational construct called "you" may be locally re-injected or redistributed in spacetime. In principle, this could be a recombinative process, with the essences of many people combining in a set of local injections or "reincarnations" (this could lead to strange effects...e.g., a single person remembering simultaneous "past lifetimes").

In addition, an individual human sublanguage might be vectored into an alternate domain dynamically connected to its existence in spacetime. In this scenario, the entity would emerge into an alternate reality based on the interaction between her local level of consciousness and the global level embedding it...i.e., based on the state of her "soul" as just defined. This may be the origin of beliefs regarding heaven, hell, purgatory, limbo and other spiritual realms.

Starboy · 12-23-2002, 04:58 PM

What is an UltraHick? That some sort of redneck thing? Like one of those guys with a big ford with 10 foot tires?

Russell E. Rierson · 12-23-2002, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by excreationist:
I wonder if anyone (here or elsewhere) agrees with this part of CTMU:

<a href="http://www.ctmu.org/CTMU/Q&A/Archive.html#Souls" target="_blank">Q & A - CTMU and souls</a>:

String theory describes resonating quantities called p-brains, not to be confused with ..."pea-brains".

<img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

What if souls are the superposition of all possible states for the collection of quarks and leptons that make the inividual human being under consideration?

{<-{->{<-{U}->}<-}->}

The "resonating universe".
One observer's superposition is another observer's actualization.

Recall the "reverse universe" of William Sidis.

Time also must have a ..."reverse" if duality holds across the board. A self "contained" system.

So yes, the human mind is also a *wave* that is spread out across space and time.

Lambda = h/p , where p is momentum and h is Plancks constant.

psi^2 is where the greatest probability of position and momentum are.

{KE + PE}*psi = E*psi

Motion is relative. A moving system has relative position and momentum. Also objects moving in tandem can be explained as being at rest with respect to each other.

Momentum is a wave property; position is a particle property. Relativity must also conform to the principle of duality, as does all relations within our universe. Wave function collapse does not mean the wave function dissolves.

Mental thought processes are chemical(particle) interactions within our minds.

A "particle" has the property of wave-particle duality.

Therefore our thought processes are also waves spreading out through space and time.

These waves interact with other waves.

If consciousness is also a wave property spreading throughout the universe then consciousness is ubiquitous.

Particles can be sent through a diffraction grating one at a time, observed as particles, yet after several-many particles have been sent through said grating, a diffraction pattern begins to take shape.

Thus it would appear that a governing mechanism or principle, is in effect. Consciousness?

The reductionistic worldview is a crumbling monolith. Change is necessary.

Russ

12-18-2002, 07:06 AM	#1
Ted Hoffman Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: "" Posts: 3,863	Anyone here understands CTMU? I have been reading CTMU and following the discussion <a href="http://www.arn.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=13;t=000483;p=2" target="_blank">At this ARN thread</a> and my brain is now hurting. I havent seen a discussion about it here ate infidels. Whats your take on it? Does anyone here understand it? What exactly might Chris Langan be up to with the sophistry and somewhat "arbitrary" generation of words and concepts? And whats up with these UltraHIQ societies? They smack of those ideas the Nazis had...

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12-18-2002, 07:08 AM	#2
Principia Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: anywhere Posts: 1,976	Intensity, Try: 1) <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=58&t=001755" target="_blank">http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=58&t=001755</a> 2) <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=58&t=001781" target="_blank">http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=58&t=001781</a> 3) <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=58&t=001721" target="_blank">http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=58&t=001721</a> for starters... <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

12-18-2002, 08:21 AM	#5
theyeti Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Denver, CO, USA Posts: 9,747	The only reason anyone cares about IQ is that it's correlated to likelihood of academic and financial sucess, among other things. But that correlation disappears entirely when you get to the "ultra-high" IQ ranges. Chris Langan is, to put it mildly, a complete loser. He has accomplished absolutely nothing in his life, despite his IQ, and he blames all of his failures on other people. He deserves to be laughed at, nothing more. theyeti

12-18-2002, 08:22 AM	#6
Ted Hoffman Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: "" Posts: 3,863	Thanks principia for the links. And everyone else. Phew!

12-23-2002, 03:28 PM	#7
Whatup? Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: USA Posts: 93	Anyone been able to crack this CTMU nut? Does Dembski really buy into it? Looks like a bunch of pseudosophisticated mumbo jumbo to me. I noticed that the CTMU article at Dembski's journal has changed since I first printed it out. Some references were recently added and others were rearranged. Has anyone found other changes? Despite the recent changes they still indicate a release date in September. Guess Ol' Dembski just can't admit that evolution exists. <a href="http://www.iscid.org/papers/Langan_CTMU_092902.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.iscid.org/papers/Langan_CTMU_092902.pdf</a>

12-23-2002, 04:58 PM	#9
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	What is an UltraHick? That some sort of redneck thing? Like one of those guys with a big ford with 10 foot tires?

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