Freethought & Rationalism Archive

emotional · 08-05-2003, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AJ113
Not really, you have demonstrated that you are much happier with fantasy than fact.

What makes you so certain mine is the fantasy and yours is the fact?

Alan N · 08-05-2003, 10:15 AM

Quote:

I see a child of indoctrination, someone delusional, presumptuous and full of ignorance.

Wrydsmyth, aren't we all children of indoctrination? From a Christians perspective, we have been indoctrinated by 'the world'. From ours, they have been indoctrinated by Christianity. What's the difference? Really? What do you care if what appears as delusion truly offers hope, meaning, and joy to the believer? I'm not one to rob anyone of their hope and joy, regardless of the foundation that it's built on.

I don't think Whispers was taunting anyone. I think it was a genuine inquiry...how can we (athiests) find the wonder and awe in life without God?

Rhaedas · 08-05-2003, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shadowy Man
When you look at a bubble chamber, and see the traces formed by subatomic particles leaving decaying radioactive material what do you see?

When you look at an MRI scan, what do you see?

When you look at star formation induced by interacting galaxies what do you see?

When you look at seismographic records of earthquakes half a world away what do you see?

I would say that as an atheist I see and feel the same wonder that I would get from Whispers' list...the awe a theist gets by attributing everything to god's work, I get by observing how everything occurs naturally, without some designer. Perhaps more so...for the beauty and detail I see is all natural and happenstance.

Perhaps the theist's need to give credit to god for the workings of the universe is just more of the human nature to personify things. Many people find it hard to see the universe from a non-egocentric view, and see it for the grandness it is by itself, so they wish for a humanlike guiding hand in it all, to make themselves feel less small.

I for one have never minded the insignificance of myself in the grand scope of things. Indeed, I find the idea that such a small part of the universe can comprehend the rest of the universe fascinating. And I don't need a god to have these feelings.

Quote:

Originally posted by StrongMan What this says to me is that without your belief in god, a sunset would mean nothing to you, I would mean nothing to you, your child would mean nothing to you.

So is that true? Lets say all of a sudden you lost your belief in god, would your child mean nothing to you?

Well said. Atheists don't need to dumb down things to "goddidit" to see the wonder of the cosmos. As with morality, theists ascribe things to god that somehow atheists manage to realize themselves, no deity required.

AJ113 · 08-05-2003, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by emotional
What makes you so certain mine is the fantasy and yours is the fact?

Empirical evidence.

emotional · 08-05-2003, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AJ113
Empirical evidence.

There's much more than meets the eye. Or than evidence, for that matter.

Mageth · 08-05-2003, 10:30 AM

Whispers, after looking at your profile, I have no idea what you mean when you say God. You express your religious beliefs "Buddhist/Christian/don't know?". Your view of God could thus range from atheism (which doesn't seem likely), to some form of pantheism (where as some Buddhists claim there is a bit of God in all of us, or in all things, or that we are all gods), to deism, and to the personified, external "saving" God of Christianity.

Without a definition of what "God" means to you, your claims in the OP are ambiguous. When you look at your child, do you see your child as a god, do you see your child as a bit of godness, or do you see the presence or influence of a separate, but personal, god?

callmejay · 08-05-2003, 10:37 AM

Whispers:

I find the world more amazing without a "man behind the curtain" pulling levers to make the planets orbit.

Joe V. · 08-05-2003, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by emotional
There's much more than meets the eye. Or than evidence, for that matter.

How else should we distinguish reality from fantasy?

- Joe

emotional · 08-05-2003, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe V.
How else should we distinguish reality from fantasy?

Who gives a sh*t about reality?!

Joe V. · 08-05-2003, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by emotional

Who gives a sh*t about reality?!

I do. I want to know what's real and what isn't. I want to know what is the truth and what's fiction. Most importantly, I want to know that I'm not being deceived by anyone, including myself.

- Joe

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08-05-2003, 10:30 AM	#26
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Whispers, after looking at your profile, I have no idea what you mean when you say God. You express your religious beliefs "Buddhist/Christian/don't know?". Your view of God could thus range from atheism (which doesn't seem likely), to some form of pantheism (where as some Buddhists claim there is a bit of God in all of us, or in all things, or that we are all gods), to deism, and to the personified, external "saving" God of Christianity. Without a definition of what "God" means to you, your claims in the OP are ambiguous. When you look at your child, do you see your child as a god, do you see your child as a bit of godness, or do you see the presence or influence of a separate, but personal, god?

08-05-2003, 10:37 AM	#27
callmejay Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 466	Whispers: I find the world more amazing without a "man behind the curtain" pulling levers to make the planets orbit.

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