jpbrooks

How is the "ego" able to cross the "line" between experiencing nothing but emotional states of consciousness and having the "insight" to realize that there is "something to surrender to", again, if the "ego" is incapable of experiencing anything but emotional states? Perhaps the whole idea of dividing the "self" into "parts" that can have only one kind of experience is problematic.


This seems to suggest that it is the whole group of "selves" that represents the "you" that gains a greater perspective of the function of its "parts". In order to learn how to operate in a more coordinated manner the various "parts" of the whole "self" need to be able to "know" what it's like to experience what the other "parts" are experiencing. But this is not possible if the real "self" that is to gain this "greater perspective" is merely one of its "parts" that is "confined" to having only one kind of experience.

But the brain and nervous system is what has been chosen as the focal point of scientific research that the researchers believe is related to the "self".

I have to run.

malai5

Dear jpbrooks.

As we said, the ''ego'' has to be sublimated, defused. This is most easily done, in a conscious way by meditation. The ''state'' accessed in this practice is an ''egoless'' state which shows that there ''is'' something to ''surrender'' to. This may not tell you that there are other selves, but it certainly shows you another part of you.

Each ''self'' performs a specific function in the hierarchy of you.
The ''little'' self is the conscious ''animal' survival self. It allows you to function from birth to the point where your search for ''more'' kicks in.
The higher self is the ''go between'', the ''filter'' that regulates what ''intuitive'' knowledge is needed for each moment of your growth from birth. It also oversees your contract you have with your true self.
The true self, is at the top of your hierarchy, it's where all of you, the cumulative you from all of your existences resides. This is the font where your higher self draws the information from to filter to the ''litttle'' 3D you.
It's all you, and the greater enfolds the lesser. All experiences are understood by the true self and the higher self. There is only what is required, understood by the ''little'' self.
So, not really different experiences, just different roles to play.
Three in one, working as one.

Once it was the heart that was studied as being the focal point of consciousness, now it is the brain.
The truth of the matter, is that the physical system is wholistic and mechanical in essence. The cells of all parts of the body store their own experiences in the DNA physical and DNA energetic/etherial. Have you ever heard of ''muscle memory'' not the brain, just a muscle.
The brain has been focussed upon because it is not truly understood and it is easy to assign all manner of atributes to it. No one can say it doesn't ''think'', but in truth, no one can say it does.
We know that it is just a processor and that the thinking, whether it be ''little'' self subjective or higher self objective is carried out as part of the energetic you, the wholistic 3 selves.

Cheers.

Malai5.

Amos

Dear malai,

Very true, but since the 3D self must follow the path of pleasure and pain we can learn from both pleasure and pain. In this sense are both equally good and therefore the word "doomed" seems much to harsh for as long as we follow the world of the 3D self.

In my view the word "doomed" is reserved for those who suffer permanently in their higher self as a result of religious indoctrination and/or spiritual fornication. In this sense it is more of a permanent, or more persistent form of self condemnation and I do not think that this is what you had in mind. Point is, I know what you mean and wanted to make the distinction between recognizing mistakes and eternal damnation.

malai5

Dear Amos.

Yes, pleasure and pain are a learning path and as there is ''no good or bad'' in the truest sense they are just lessons. If you do not learn those lessons, you are ''doomed'', destined to keep reincarnating to learn the same lessons. Not damned by G.O.D., you do it to yourself.

There is no way one could equate the religious and those of the religions as being in higher self. To be and act in higher self has nothing to do with piety or religious suplication, it is the result of conscoiusly working to know yourself. The religious way, will take you further from your truth of self. Religions practise the work of man, not of G.O.D. The very fact that there are religions is only a testament to the control and power, the lesser aspects of 3D humans.

Please Amos, we know that there is no such thing as eternal damnation. G.O.D. does not judge or consign anyone to anywhere for their so called ''sins'', that is a 3D human created idea.
We are all individually responsible for our own lives and where they will go. Cause and effect.

Cheers.

Malai5.

Amos

Hello jpbrooks, I have a simple view of this that is much easier to follow and I will present it here for your perusal.

I also know the 3 minds, 1=the universal, 2= the higher self and 3=the particular ego or 3D self (personally I am somewhat uncomfortable using the term "3D self" at this time).

In my view our intuition is the memory of our soul and this also means that our soul is that part of us that we do not consciously know. If you can accept that you must admid that if and when we can rationalize our own intuit mind we no longer have a soul --because our soul will have become one with our conscious mind (or vice versa). I can add here that only if our subconscious mind is not fully conscious that we can have intuit knowledge and this in itself should give us sufficent reason to try and find out what "we" are all about. I.e. who am I? and what is the meaning of life? (usually a mid-life question).

From the above I conclude that there is "two of us" and call our subconscious mind the "true identity" (Allen Watts) and our conscious mind the "ego identity." In the bible they call it TOL (tree of life) and TOK (tree of knowledge).

I'll now take you throught Hardys poem and you will see how he presents this. Notice that I will never tell you (or anybody) what to do because I think that it is completely beyond our ability to consciously reach for our higher self (contemplation may be argued for).

The Convergence of the Twain
(Lines on the loss of the "Titanic")

I

In a solitude of the sea
Deep from human vanity,
And the Pride of Life that planned her, stilly couches she.
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Here he's looking back on his own life and equates his own ego now left behind with the mighty Titanic also left behind. Notice how both were created and planned by the Pride of Life (and the ego must get credit for this).
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II

Steel chambers, late the pyres
Of her salamandrine fires,
Cold currents thrid, and turn to rhythmic tidal lyres.
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He also built it as if out of steel (big ego) while he was driven and aided by the serpentine cleverness and persuasion (this an allusion to the serpent as the woman with a carrot on a stick and the low-life manners that go with it to follow this carrot) along the route of pleasure and pain (cold currents and rhythmic tidal lyres).
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III

Over the mirrors meant
To glass the opulent
The sea-worm crawls - grotesque, slimed, dumb, indifferent.
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Left behind in all its former glory, useless as a past ideal now non-emotional and without getting any attention.
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IV

Jewels in joy designed
To ravish the sensuous mind
Lie lightless, all their sparkles bleared and black and blind.
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It was a pleasure to built our ego and it was exciting to be enslaved to our senses but they now have lost their attraction (as if they have been pierced).
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V

Dim moon-eyed fishes near
Gaze at the gilded gear
And query: "What does this vaingloriousness down here?"
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Here is an interplay with his old friends who ask: "what has happened to him?" Why the sudden change? "Was he not the son of . . . ?"
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VI

Well: while was fashioning
This creature of cleaving wing,
The Immanent Will that stirs and urges everything
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So here he tells us that unbeknown to him while he was building his own ego the Immanent Will of the "higher self" (wherein he was divided with his ego consciousness), had something else in mind. This Immanent Will is why the "salemandrine fires" were the driving force of his actions and therefore stirs and urges everything (our inspiration of ideas and urges). I could add here "she will strike at your head while you will strike at his heel" but then we must add two more identities below the "universal mind" ie. both the True Identity and the ego have a female identity of their own.
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VII

Prepared a sinister mate
For her - so gaily great--
A Shape of Ice, for the time far and dissociate.
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The sinister mate is the web we weave while in pursuit of happines that gets more complicated as we go further into the jungle of life. Without any suspicion (dissociate alludes to "thief in the night") we built our ego willfully and joyfully.

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VIII

And as the smart ship grew
In stature, grace, and hue,
In shadowy silent distance grew the Iceberg too.
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And as our ego got bigger and better so did life become more complicated and gloomier (shadowy).

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IX

Alien they seemed to be;
No mortal eye could see
The intimate welding of their later history,
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While we are aware of both our triumphs and our sorrows it is not possible to foretell that they are opposite to each other to converge in the final rout that brings about the infinite peace.

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X

Or sign that they were bent
By paths coincident
On being anon twin halves of one august event,
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They seem completely unrelated but cannot be conceived to exist without each other and are therefore twin halves of a "late summer" event (August is very fitting) that leads to their at-one-ment.
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XI

Till the Spinner of the Years
Said "Now!" And each one hears,
And consummation comes, and jars two hemispheres.
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So it is just a matter of Time and the two minds become in the moment that ends our 'non-rational-grand-inquisition' with regard to the meaning of life.

Amos

I understand.

I agree, piety and religious suplications are enemies of enlighenment.

True, G.O.D. does not condemn us but we do it to ourselves. If there is eternal bliss there must be eternal damnation and this must be true if you hold eternal life to be part of this life.

The answer here is very simple. If a crisis moment is needed to bring change in life the result must either be good or bad before change can be noticed. If good is possible, bad must be possible or tragedies coul dnot be opposite to comedies.

Amos

Religion is needed to provide the stream of consciousness against which liberation must be found. Religion must lead us into the jungle of life and help us weave the complicated web wherein we get lost as self alienated wanderers. It does this by providing the forbidden fruit that baits us and when we feel lost we should be allowed to return to religion to whitewash our ego and once again go back for more now with an renewed determination to succeed-- because the will and determination of the ego must be exhausted before it can be annihilated (Frye's "Parody"). It is like fishing where the angler must play with the catch and exhaust it before he can reel it in.

The difficulty is the concept "lost" that is needed before can we become engaged in this non-rational-grand-inquisition (wherein we 'go for the bait'). This is not a fixed measure but is a deviation from the carefree Eden we once knew and enjoyed.

malai5

Dear Amos.

Loved the breakdown of the poem. You seem to have a grasp of why one would look to find who and what you are.

The ''crisis'' moment comes, not to give you the opposite so you choose good or bad, as they are subjective concepts, but rather to give you a ''jolt'' to wake you up to the fact that you are about to break your contract or youu are getting ''off track''. This is what is called ''Second Chance'' and it occurs once only in any given life.
If you break your contract, you may have to do all or part of it over again. No damnation, just more work. To fulfill your contract gives great soul growth.

Cheers.

Malai5.

Amos

Correct "good and bad" bad will be no more! (freedom from the law is freedom from sin and so the concept sin does not exist in heaven).

The problem I see with your second go-around is that all/most born again Christians will claim to have a new lease on life wherein they have become "saved sinners." Within this phrase do they claim both a victory and a defeat because they condemn themselves to be doomed until they die and therefore will die nonetheless. This is where my concept "eternal damnation" enters the picture.

If religion would leave these "second chance" people alone they may be able to "do the extra work," as you suggest, but here in America that does not seem to be possible because there is a legion of vultures on the look-out to mislead these suffering souls.

I should add that in my view we cannot consciously look to find our higher self. This does not mean that you are wrong, but just that I am not familar with it. In my defense I can add such terms as "beyond theology" or "beyond surrender" or "the end of our world" and others that I cannot remember at this moment. Notice how Hardy also claims that it is foreign to our understanding.

malai5

Dear Amos.

Second Chance has nothing to do with the christian, ''born again'', for to be born again as far as religion goes, means come back to religion, back to the false prophets and the church of man, not of G.O.D. this will generally take them further from their selves, further from their stated goal of ''salvation'' (growth/soul growth, growth of true self).

If people could leave religion alone you mean, as it is their choice, for whatever reason to subject themselves to the ''vultures''. We see what you are saying but there is free will to be a sheep or not.

We cannot ''look'' to find our Higher self, but we can open to it by our intent to do so.
Yes, it is, as Hardy said beyond understanding, 3D understanding that is. You can open to this greater understanding by the simple way we started, write. Sit quietly, clear you mind as best you can, ask to be connected to your higher self and then write whatever comes into your head. Don't read it until the flow stops, don't expect it to go one way or another. Date and time it, for reference further on. Don't be surprised if what you get is not how you will think, phrase, and construct your normal writing. You will be shown the difference so that you will know it is not the ''little'' you that is doing it. See how you go.

Cheers.

Malai5.