Darth Dane

I don't know if any of my theories are correct, I'll let you be the judge of what is the truth. These are just thoughts an ideas running in my head


I have been contemplating for a while, about the Ten Commandments. How can the 10 be of use to us today, and are they the God’s commands?
I will make some analysis of them, coupled with my background and understanding, to see if some sense can be made of them. I will also use other quotes from various sources to give a coherent whole of it. I will also mix from the OT and NT because they are intertwined with Jesus and his attributed sayings.
I realise that they are not in the original language, which holds huge importance, due to the dichotomy of words, and especially in the aramaeic/hebrew language.
I am also aware that my sentences can be muddled, and I hope with the help of you, that I may be able to be more precise.

I got the commandments from this site:Ten Commandments

God is here the highest, the one principle, as put forward in the bible. We will not discuss if that is the correct way to believe, but how it works within this system of thought that the OT gives.

Ok this is the protestant version, from the King James Bible. Which can serve as a template for all of them.


Protestant

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Seems fairly straight forward, but it isn’t. On one level God, who is somewhere else, says that you must hold God the highest, and not pray to lesser God’s, like the sun God Ra. Ra is included in God. Also notice, that God says that there are other God’s!!! So is there more than one God or is it misquoted from the original texts? So you could say that the christian God is one amongst many, and that that God made contact to Moses, and said that he/she is the “best”.
Another level is this: When you get the commandment and say it out loud or in your mind, what are you saying? Then YOU are saying “Thou shalt have no other gods before me”, now YOU are the God, who doesn’t want others to pray to another God.
Jesus said(AFAIK); "Behold, the kingdom of God is within you" (Lk 17:21).. This corresponds to the idea that God, or paradise, is inside yourself, and that you are it. Jesus also said; “The kingdom of heaven is spread upon earth, but people do not see it.” Here Jesus says that paradise is outside of man. So Jesus said that paradise is both within and without, which is very interesting. The original texts holds a word that means both “inside” and “outside”. So Jesus could use one sentence and say that God/paradise is in- and outside man.
From genesis 1:27; “God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him”
Genesis teaches us, that we look like God, we are not the God, but we look like him, and are one with him.
From John 10:34 (book of psalms 82:6) “I have said, Ye are gods(Deities, my addition); and all of you are children of the most High.”
Here we are told that we ourselves are God, and God is the one who told us! So I look like God, I am a God/deity, and we co-exist, only…. my Life/existance is from him, as the angels are from him, and my existance is dependant on God.
So even though we are all God’s/deities in God, we shall not have other God’s, i.e. humans in this case, before him. Deities would be a better word for us humans, since we are not God in the normal sense of God as the creator of heaven and earth.

2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

This is connected with the first. Having a deity as your object of prayer, i.e. something less than God, will arouse God’s jealousy. God’s jealousy will be expressed through his many agents, namely us. If God want’s to take over for me, God can easily do it. Maybe God IS doing it, only subtly. The jealousy comes from humans that won’t bow to presidents, sportsathletes, actors and so on. So through these humans God will be jealous. God shows mercy to those who holds his commandments. Do you not show mercy to those who keep the commandments? Especially “thou shall not kill”? You can show God’s mercy to others and your own.

3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain: for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Again here it is for those deities/humans, that will get offended by blasphemy and so on, since they hold God’s will.
“It is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.” Philippians 2:13 (NASB)

4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Jesus said: The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath”
The 7th day is reserved for honoring your God. Again take note: Your God.

5. Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

What if your parents are evil and does bad things, are we still then to honor them?

6. Thou shalt not kill.

One of the interesting ones. I am not allowed to kill. Not allowed to kill what exactly?
It does say does it? Can I kill a stone? A tree? Water?.
The only way I see this making sense is to add this: …what you consider to be alive.
“Thou shall not kill, what you consider to be alive or a live thing” or what about;
“Thou shall not kill your loved ones” couple this with Jesus saying “Love thy enemy as you love thy self”
Only by making the commandment your own, will you be able to find the meaning, no other can do this for you.
Also a good advice, because most of us, agree on the fact that we would prefer not to be killed. If I prefer not to be killed, I feel it is a safe bet to assume others feel the same.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Seems like a good advice. But what if both man and woman agree to sleep around, is it then adultery? Is it only adultery when they are not in agreement? Be faithful to the agreement with your spouse.

8. Thou shalt not steal.

Good advice But again what? What am I not allowed to steal? It doesn’t say. It must refer to the act of stealing. If you know you are stealing then you are sinning, if you don’t know what then?
If you don’t consider what you do an act of stealing, how can you be going against the commandment?

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

It doesn’t say you can’t lie. It says you shall not bear false witness, when put on trial so to say.
The yogi’s have a similar “commandment”. Satya, which means truthfullnessmore or less. But in the list of those advice, ahimsa is first. Ahimsa means non-violence. So if you by saying the truth bring about someones death, you should not say the truth, because that of non-violence is a more coveted virtue than being truthful.
Example: You are at a crossroad, and a man comes running, obviously scared and runnnig away from something. Soon after a man armed to his teeth, comes running. He stops and asks you where the first man went. If you tell the truth, the first man will die. If you don’t say anything, the armed man may turn his aggresion towards you. If you lie, you will save a life.
The yogi’s always says, save life. The first man may be a robberer, but it is not for men to judge who is to die or not. That power belongs to God

10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's.

Greed is the center of this commandment, greed will lead you astray. Those who have money wants more of it, until they own the world. But what then? All these things you will abandon when you leave earth.


The hindu's/yogi's have this order.


Ahimsa - non-violence
Satya - truthfullness
Asteya - non-stealing
Brachmacharya - moderation, selfconstraint
Aparigraha - Non-Possessiveness
Shaucha: Purity/Clarity
Santosha: Contentment
Tapas: Austerity
Swadhyaya: Self-Education, Study
Ishwara-Pranidhana: Surrender to God/Light/Energy of the Universe



Note the different order here!!!!





A story I was told:

Moses came down from the mountain with the 10 commandments, and everybody was happy.
They went to sleep, and when they woke, they saw that after each commandment there was written:
“For Love”
When they saw this they despaired, for if they couldn’t do anything out of Love what could they do?
So they erased the 10 and came up with two.

1. You may
2. You don’t have to

Another one was that Moses came up with commandments, because it was practical when you were a clan/group travelling together. You couldn’t have killing and so on, when the ”society” was so small.

Neale Donald Walsh has this to offer:

The ten commandments are not commandments but promises. That when you are with God you will keep them. And God promises this to you. When you are with God you shall not kill.




Some may argue that the 10 commandments was made for men, since it claims that “Thou shall not covet thy neighbors wife” What about women? Are they allowed to covet?
Maybe we should come up with ten commandments for women as well.

So men have this:

1. I am the Lord thy God. Thou shall not have strange gods before me.
2. Thou shall not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
3. Remember thou keep the Sabbath Day.
4. Honour thy Father and thy Mother.
5. Thou shall not kill.
6. Thou shall not commit adultery.
7. Thou shall not steal.
8. Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
9. Thou shall not covet thy neighbour's wife.
10. Thou shall not covet thy neighbour's goods.

and women have this perhaps(I’m still working on this, your help is needed )

1. Thou may see me as the one God
2. Thou may take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
3. Thou may keep the Sabbath
4. Thou may honour thy Father and thy Mother
5. Thou may give life
6. Thou may give thyself away.
7. Thou may work for thy own goods
8. Thou may say the truth to your neighbour
9. Thou may be thy neighbours wife
10. Thou may give thy neighbour goods



Jesus said Love is the key to everything. So say I.

In the tv series “Jesus of Nazareth”, Jesus asks one of the priest which is the highest commandment. The priest asnwers: “To Love god with all of your heart”
Jesus then says: “I now give you a new commandment, to Love thy neighbor as you Love thy self. This is equally high.”

As I read it, Jesus says indirectly, that everything is God and everything should be treated as if it was God him/herself. All is One.


"God ... be all in all" (1 Cor 15:28);

"It is the same God which worketh all in all" (1 Cor 12:6).

In “The Gospel of the Holy Twelve” Jesus says: “Faith without Love is dry as the desert”

Love is the Key for everything.


"and the truth shall set you free"


Lastly, is God allowed to kill? (presuming there is a God as presented by the bible)
We can only conclude that God is.
God created us, and when we have lived, God will kill us.
If God is allowed to kill, what does this makes humans that does the same?

Could a possible 11th commandment(law) be:

11. If you break my commandments you make your self God. With great power comes great responsibility


"Love, and do what you like" St. Augustine. What is this?



Help is needed, discussion wanted.






DD - Love Love

Inconnu

I would have thought that the omnipotent creator of everything would have been a bit more precise in his text.

Darth Dane

If there is a God, I assume God did God's best with the humans God had available.

What do you think of teh man and woman commandments?

And what about the 11th?





DD - Love Spliff

HelenM

Some understand it that way, but I think you could also interpret it as saying God is acknowledging their belief in other gods, not necessarily saying they exist.

I thought it was "love God and do what you like" (that's a paraphrase I think - not quite his actual words). The meaning of it is that Augustine believes those who truly love God will only want what God wants, so they can do what they like because what they like will please God.

Helen

Inconnu

I am unsure where you are going with this Darth Dane. The 'commandments' where obviously concieved by humans, proven by their content. The ox coveting always makes me giggle.
As a script purported to be from the boundless intellegence of a divine being and the creator of EVERYTHING, they are rather lame and anticlimactic, and tbh, not worthy of your efforts to decipher them imo.
Your male/female deduction confirms it.

Shake

Here's a few good links I found to pieces on the II Library about the 10C:

Commandments 5-11

The REAL Ten Commandments

and a small piece by William Edelen.

I'd recommend reading these over for some more perspective.

MrDarwin

I keep trying to tell people that the First Commandment and the First Amendment are mutually exclusive.

Biff the unclean

According to Ex34 these are the 10 commandments that God decided on after that first little mishap with the golden calf. And these are the only ones the bible calls "the 10 comandments."

1. Thou shalt worship no other god (For the Lord is a jealous god).
2. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
3. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep in the month when the ear is on the corn.
4. All the first-born are mine.
5. Six days shalt thou work, but on the seventh thou shalt rest.
6. Thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, even of the first fruits of the wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
7. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leavened bread.
8. The fat of my feast shall not remain all night until the morning.
9. The first of the first fruits of thy ground thou shalt bring unto the house of the Lord thy God.
10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in its mother's milk.

So if you were thinking of having baby goat boiled in it's own mothers milk for a late afternoon snack forgetaboutit.

Eric H

Christ said all the law and the prophets hang on the two greatest commandments; so that must also include the other ten

The two greatest commandments could be compared to a coat hook; without the hook to hold your coat up it falls to the floor. Any laws should hang and depend on the two greatest commandments to have a greater meaning.

If a dictator makes the law, it will be made to serve the purpose of that dictator. It could be said of Saddam that the laws of not stealing or killing in Iraq only applied to other people.

Law needs a guiding purpose, something that you are trying to achieve which is fair for all people.

In a democracy if all law is based on the second commandment, love your neighbour as yourself, then all law must be made fair to serve all people; whether your neighbour is a beggar or a billionaire.

We also know that a billionaire can use the law in many ways that a beggar cannot, and so the law struggles to live up to the second commandment.

Christ said all the law must hang on the two greatest commandments, for me I feel that still stands today.

I should love God above all else, if someone killed my son, I should not seek revenge, I should love God above all else, I should forgive them, I should even pray for that person, because I should not want God to punish them on my behalf.

Unconditional love seems unnatural, and yet it seems the greater path.

This is only my interpretation and I know it is not a view held by many others.

peace


Eric.

Darth Dane

Christ said all the law and the prophets hang on the two greatest commandments; so that must also include the other ten

Where does Jesus say this?


Any other who might have some input?





DD - Love Spliff