LLaurieG

Greetings. First time I've posted here since the place opened. Homosexuality's always an interesting and flammable topic between fundamentalists and non-believers. I'm a non-believer myself. DK thinks it worthwhile to ponder why homosexuality is taboo in the Bible, indeed, punishable by death. Perspective. Recall that according to Exodus & Leviticus, cursing out your parents, not observing the Sabbath, and following another religion are also punishable by death. Yet we only very seldom hear Christians suggesting death for their rebellious teenagers, for fathers who choose Sunday golf instead of church, or organizing "Let's invite over the Hindus and kill them" parties. Logically they should—at least to be consistent in their beliefs. But bible-based Christianity is not rational, as all non-believers know, and its myriad denominations of believers are anything BUT consistent in how they follow it. I have both gay friends and family members, and personally I view Christians judgmental against homosexuality in the same way that Sigmund Freud viewed all "Religious Truth:"

Mark_Chid

So its OK to state that ALL HOMOSEXUALS deserve death but not to suggest to the person who says this that the world might me a better place without him?

mmmm

care to explain that one Mr Moderator?

Echo

I'd like to see some Christians actually deal with the the questions posed in the OP, namely whether homosexuality should be illegal and whether the death penalty is appropriate as a punishement for homosexuality, given the bible's support for such a punishment.

The Other Michael

Sure thing.

You get to attack the statement, not the person making it.

From the forum rules and policies:

In addition, the person you quoted in your edited message, raistlinjones, made VERY CLEAR that he was attempting to respond as he thought a Christian might, and in fact the last lines of the message you quoted which appear directly above your message are:

Clear?

Michael
MF&P Moderator, Second Class

Mark_Chid

But the statement attacks MANY people - why is it allowed to stand? Are we allowed to insult or show hate to anyone we like as long as its not a fellow poster?

Double standard??

Mark_Chid

Apologies for not realising he was 'in character', in that case my response was inappropriate, but what if he HAD meant it?

Is it forum policy to let hate speech stand as long as its not directed to a specific poster?

The Other Michael

I think I'd probably have to determine that based on how it was worded.

If it's part of a rant, say something you might expect to find on the godhatesfags site, it might get edited, especially if directed at a specific person participating on the thread, as in "of course God wants everyone to kill YOU".

The way it was phrased here I don't think so, as it seems that it was more of a part of a proposition:

1.....
2....
3 therefore, killing all homosexuals is pleasing to God.

In that case, you should be showing how the rationalization or grounds for it are wrong.

However, that is the way I see it, and there are three other moderators for this forum, as well as administrators who check in now and then, and there could be some drift over what strikes a particular person as being over the line. God-like infallability is not one of the powers that moderators are given.

Your safest bet is to be like Ceasar's wife - above any hint of scandalous activity.

cheers,
Michael

dk

• pug846:

• dk, did you stop to think about what you were writing, or did you just spew out the standard lines your church gave you?
  First off, you completely skirted the issue in the opening post. Should homosexuals be put to death? Yes or no?
  dk: The answer is no, from a modern perspective that would be “throwing the baby out with the bathwater”, or from a Biblical perspective, “destroying the wheat along with the weeds”. Read my previous post.
  
• dk: : Gay culture poses a vicious deadly threat to sodomites & intimates, while the OT and NT Law offer hope. I wonder how many people have received a death sentence in gay bath houses and other institutions of gay love.
  pug846 : Yes, those fags and their gay orgies. What shall we do with them?
  dk: Hey, you defile yourself, not Christians.
  
• pug846 : Here’s a thought for you and you might want to sit down for this: Not all gay people go to bathhouses. It might come as a shock to you, but lots of gay men stay in loving, committed long-term relationship. Unfortunately they can’t get the official governmental approval (and the accompanying legal benefits), but they stay monogamous.
  dk: Because all gays don’t frequent bath houses doesn’t minimize the incomprehensible tragedy. Hey, they shut the bathhouses down in the mid 1980s, then reopened them in the 1990s when Antiretroviral treatments (HAART) came available. Is this the gay agenda for “Don’t ask don’t tell, but don’t worry lover there’s treatment”.
  
• dk: By all counts the champions of modern gay culture have a gift that keeps on giving, and teenage protégés are the latest in a long list of unwitting recipients.
  pug846 : There can be negative consequences if you practice unprotected sex.
  dk: Negative consequences? These people are being decimated, and you don’t give a hoot. Safe sex!!! Russian roulette gives better odds than a gay bath house.
  
• pug846: It doesn’t matter if you are gay, straight or bi-sexual. Your complaint doesn’t reside with the sexual orientation, but with the way some homosexuals choose to act on their sexual feelings. Surprise, surprise, but that same problem can be found in straight populations.
  
• dk: Surprise, surprise 20 years into the AIDs epidemic gay (men) that compose 2-3% of the total US population represent 76% of people living with AIDS.
  AIDS fatalities are
• 15% women
  85% men
  AIDS survivors
• 
  24% women
  76% men
  New AIDS cases mode of transmission
  47% MSM (male sex w/ male),
  25% IDU (intravenous drug use)
• 
  10% Heterosexual,
  18% unknown and
  <a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/onap/facts.html" target="_blank"> The HIV/AIDS Epidemic: 20 Years in the U.S. </a>
  
  
• dk: I have to ask, “If gays care about one another, then why haven’t they shut down the bath houses and other notorious venues?
  pug846 : If straights care about each other, why do they continue to allow each other to drink, smoke and do some of the more dangerous drugs? Are you serious here? Would you like to follow me with where this reasoning leads us?
  dk: - The government spends billions, and hands out a lot of jail time to deter dangerous drugs, drunk driving, and smoking. On the other hand the government spends a lot of money encouraging a gay culture that markets pandemic as safe sex.
  
• pug846 : If God is so concerned about love, why would God care if two men want to stay in a loving, caring, committed relationship?
  dk: - If being gay is good, then I don’t understand why gays are so concerned with God, didn’t somebody say God died. But if gaydom is bad then God has given several heads up.
  
• pug846 :If a vagina was involved, it suddenly becomes okay? Is God that much of a fucking idiot?
  dk: Ditto. The Bible set the Gold Standard with the Marital Act because human life was sacred. We can thank the fraudulent research and/or personal bias of Margaret Sanger, Kinsey, Margaret Mead, SC and media sensationalism for mainstreaming safe recreational sex. Clearly there is nothing safe about the emotional, biological and psychological impacts of sex upon society, family and individuals.
  
• pug846 : Please do me a favor and repeat this simple phrase over and over again before you feel the urge to spew more biblical crap in this thread:
  I promise to try and separate the potential irresponsible acts that homosexuals can engage in and homosexuality itself. I understand that straight people often do irresponsible things because of their sexuality, but that doesn’t mean that heterosexuality is wrong.
  dk: Tell that to a 13 year old teenager being dropped off at an abortion clinic by a statutory rapist, without even the support of their family.
  
• pug846 : This is a very sensitive topic for me, so watch what you say because I will jump down your throat if you step across that line and start making the typical, bigoted statements that I hear from Christians regarding homosexuality.
  dk: Its a sensitive subject for most people, and for good reason.

[ September 04, 2002: Message edited by: dk ]</p>

dk

By the way raistlinjones points 1-5 were much more critical of Christians than a vulgar rant because they were reasonably founded on what the Bible says. raistlinjones softened his criticism in the remaining points with humanist considerations consistent with the tradition of many Christian denominations.

I think its fair to say most Christians want to persuade and help, not force, homosexuals to lead productive healthy lives. I personally am appalled by what I perceive as denial within Politically Correct liberal ranks. In the US the AIDS pandemic has been fought by political not medical stratagem. Medically speaking the response to contagious disease is to reduce exposure by isolating the source and modes of transmission until a vaccination can be developed and deployed. Until 1999 almost no money was spent on a vaccination, while all the research money went into short term treatments, profits rule. Meanwhile the disease has been allowed to thrive in isolated communities, especially communities of gay, IDU and poor urban blacks. In Britain 50% of surviving AIDs patents live in London metropolitan area, and in the US 25% of infected AIDs survivors live in NY, LA and SF. High rates of exposure present a real medical risk because MDR stains of the HIV, and MDR opportunistic infections jump from host to host accelerating the rate of mutation. Some might say what’s the big deal, but it is a big deal. If a few MDR microbes win the race and get loose in the greater society the consequence is catastrophic. The cost in human and financial resources could send the world economy into a tailspin for decades. In fact, it may already be to late for Africa, and China & India seem poised to follow suit. As a citizen I am just flabbergasted that the CDC can’t track new HIV cases after 20+ years. They project 300,000 people are active untested carriers of HIV, but only 40,000 new cases/year are projected. To think they made such a big deal over Typhoid Mary. The US once bragged about the best health care system money could buy, Today I think you can buy better, but you can’t pay more.

[ September 03, 2002: Message edited by: dk ]</p>

excreationist

dk:
Should gays receive ANY punishment at all? i.e. should homosexuality be legal or illegal?
After you've answered that, could you say what you think about prostitution - should it be legal or illegal?
If you want to be a consistent Christian, then homosexuality should be equally or more illegal than prostitution is - if you disagree please explain why prostitution is now worse than homosexuality according to Christian morality/laws.