Freethought & Rationalism Archive

galiel · 03-10-2002, 02:01 PM

I haven't seen this noted elsewhere. As a long-standing card-carrying member of the ACLU, it pains me greatly to report this.

On the January 2, 2002 show of �The Connection� on National Public Radio, the host, Dick Gordon, interviewed the new Executive Director of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), Anthony Romero. The show was titled: "The New Face of the ACLU."

They discussed the role of the ACLU post-September 11 and Romero's new strategy of �reaching out to gun owners and religious conservatives� to convince them that the ACLU is �the last and best bulwark against the erosion of the Constitution.� (sic!)

The following is a transcript of an exchange between the host and Romero, transcribed verbatim by yours truly.
(RealAudio of show is available at: <a href="http://www.theconnection.org/archive/2002/01/0111a.shtml" target="_blank">theconnection</a>)

(Romero and the host had just finished talking about protecting the civil liberties of the Afghani prisoners in Guantanamo Bay.)

DICK GORDON:
You see, these are really big issues, and they�re really important, I mean, people are playing close attention. But, but then the ACLU in Northern California will demand that an elementary school take the words, �God Bless America� down, after September 11, and people say, �What?! What are you wasting your time on THAT for?!�

ANTHONY ROMERO:
And they make a good point. In the schemes of things, I have to tell you, Dick, it is probably is not a top priority for me. It has an important principle behind it. Everything we do take as a stand, is an important principle stand. But in the scheme of things, we have other very-very important issues that we have to attend to.

If anyone doubts that this represents Romero's new official policy, they have but to look at the ACLU's <a href="http://www.aclu.org" target="_blank">web site</a>. On the left-hand side, there is a list of links to issues of concern to the ACLU. Note that every topic has been recently updated, EXCEPT the "Religious Liberty" page, which was last updated in late June, 2001-- which happens to coincide with Romero taking over as head of the ACLU.

[ March 10, 2002: Message edited by: galiel ]

{edited by Toto to fix hotlinks}

[ March 10, 2002: Message edited by: Toto ]</p>

03-10-2002, 02:29 PM

I guess the Freedom from Religion Foundation, American Atheists and others will just have to work harder from now on.

ohwilleke · 03-10-2002, 02:48 PM

The ACLU just compromised a 10C case here in Colorado. Allegedly this is so as not to create bad law if there is a loss on appeal. This does give me some qualms about the purpose behind that, however.

Ford Prefect · 03-13-2002, 08:21 PM

ohwilleke-
Is that the ten commandments tablet in front of the capitol building? If so I love the excuse the state gave for keeping it there. They set that they are trying to make the area a cultural park. I think it should be demanded that the 5 pillars of Islam go on display. I want to see the legislature get out of that. Or better yet they should do what the Jews suggested when they wanted the ten commandments posted in schools. They felt that the other 10,000 commandments given to Moses should be displayed as well.

As for the ACLU I think it�s sad that Romero feels pressured to make concessions. However it must be said that local ACLU groups are fairly loosely affiliated and can pretty much do as they like as long as they occasionally report to the higher levels and stay within the ACLU frame work on issues. So if the National Branch decides to de-emphasize a issue state groups can sometimes pick up the slack to a certain extent.

ohwilleke · 03-14-2002, 07:53 AM

It is the Grand Junction, Colorado city hall case, and states do have a great deal of autonomy (formally, probably near total autonomy), but that doesn't mean that the national can't influence the locals. A call from the head of national legal could certainly have an impact.

Grumpy · 03-14-2002, 02:37 PM

I don't blame the ACLU. I suppose they want to steal clients away from the ACLJ -- who seem to get the lion's share of Free Exercise cases.

I haven't been able to think as highly of the ACLU since they apparently caved in on the Religious Land-Use and Institutionalized Persons Act. Sadly, Americans United for Separation of Church & State made the same concessions. Basically, they agreed to let Congress, and state legislatures, grant special rights to religious practitioners when it comes to zoning laws and prison rules.

lpetrich · 03-15-2002, 09:50 AM

Strictly speaking, it's the full set of 613 that Orthodox Jews identify in the laws associated with Moses.

Corwin · 03-15-2002, 09:57 AM

Yes but if they posted the entire Mosaic code, they'd be filling our childrens' heads with all sorts of nonsense like you can't eat bacon or charge interest.... and we can't have THAT now can we?

03-10-2002, 02:01 PM	#1
galiel Banned Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Eastern Massachusetts Posts: 1,677	new ACLU head abandons religious freedom cause I haven't seen this noted elsewhere. As a long-standing card-carrying member of the ACLU, it pains me greatly to report this. On the January 2, 2002 show of �The Connection� on National Public Radio, the host, Dick Gordon, interviewed the new Executive Director of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), Anthony Romero. The show was titled: "The New Face of the ACLU." They discussed the role of the ACLU post-September 11 and Romero's new strategy of �reaching out to gun owners and religious conservatives� to convince them that the ACLU is �the last and best bulwark against the erosion of the Constitution.� (sic!) The following is a transcript of an exchange between the host and Romero, transcribed verbatim by yours truly. (RealAudio of show is available at: <a href="http://www.theconnection.org/archive/2002/01/0111a.shtml" target="_blank">theconnection</a>) (Romero and the host had just finished talking about protecting the civil liberties of the Afghani prisoners in Guantanamo Bay.) DICK GORDON: You see, these are really big issues, and they�re really important, I mean, people are playing close attention. But, but then the ACLU in Northern California will demand that an elementary school take the words, �God Bless America� down, after September 11, and people say, �What?! What are you wasting your time on THAT for?!� ANTHONY ROMERO: And they make a good point. In the schemes of things, I have to tell you, Dick, it is probably is not a top priority for me. It has an important principle behind it. Everything we do take as a stand, is an important principle stand. But in the scheme of things, we have other very-very important issues that we have to attend to. If anyone doubts that this represents Romero's new official policy, they have but to look at the ACLU's <a href="http://www.aclu.org" target="_blank">web site</a>. On the left-hand side, there is a list of links to issues of concern to the ACLU. Note that every topic has been recently updated, EXCEPT the "Religious Liberty" page, which was last updated in late June, 2001-- which happens to coincide with Romero taking over as head of the ACLU. [ March 10, 2002: Message edited by: galiel ] {edited by Toto to fix hotlinks} [ March 10, 2002: Message edited by: Toto ]</p>

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03-10-2002, 02:29 PM	#2
atheist_in_foxhole Guest Posts: n/a	I guess the Freedom from Religion Foundation, American Atheists and others will just have to work harder from now on.

03-10-2002, 02:48 PM	#3
ohwilleke Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Denver, Colorado, USA Posts: 4,834	The ACLU just compromised a 10C case here in Colorado. Allegedly this is so as not to create bad law if there is a loss on appeal. This does give me some qualms about the purpose behind that, however.

03-13-2002, 08:21 PM	#4
Ford Prefect Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Boulder, Co Posts: 35	ohwilleke- Is that the ten commandments tablet in front of the capitol building? If so I love the excuse the state gave for keeping it there. They set that they are trying to make the area a cultural park. I think it should be demanded that the 5 pillars of Islam go on display. I want to see the legislature get out of that. Or better yet they should do what the Jews suggested when they wanted the ten commandments posted in schools. They felt that the other 10,000 commandments given to Moses should be displayed as well. As for the ACLU I think it�s sad that Romero feels pressured to make concessions. However it must be said that local ACLU groups are fairly loosely affiliated and can pretty much do as they like as long as they occasionally report to the higher levels and stay within the ACLU frame work on issues. So if the National Branch decides to de-emphasize a issue state groups can sometimes pick up the slack to a certain extent.

03-14-2002, 07:53 AM	#5
ohwilleke Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Denver, Colorado, USA Posts: 4,834	It is the Grand Junction, Colorado city hall case, and states do have a great deal of autonomy (formally, probably near total autonomy), but that doesn't mean that the national can't influence the locals. A call from the head of national legal could certainly have an impact.

03-14-2002, 02:37 PM	#6
Grumpy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Alaska, USA Posts: 1,535	I don't blame the ACLU. I suppose they want to steal clients away from the ACLJ -- who seem to get the lion's share of Free Exercise cases. I haven't been able to think as highly of the ACLU since they apparently caved in on the Religious Land-Use and Institutionalized Persons Act. Sadly, Americans United for Separation of Church & State made the same concessions. Basically, they agreed to let Congress, and state legislatures, grant special rights to religious practitioners when it comes to zoning laws and prison rules.

03-15-2002, 09:50 AM	#7
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	Strictly speaking, it's the full set of 613 that Orthodox Jews identify in the laws associated with Moses.

03-15-2002, 09:57 AM	#8
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	Yes but if they posted the entire Mosaic code, they'd be filling our childrens' heads with all sorts of nonsense like you can't eat bacon or charge interest.... and we can't have THAT now can we?

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