Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Lizard · 09-02-2002, 04:39 PM

Ruse references Cal Thomas' amazingly ill-informed editorial in this article, "Genesis has no place in science class."

By Michael Ruse
Tallahassee Democrat

<a href="http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/news/opinion/3964995.htm" target="_blank">http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/news/opinion/3964995.htm</a>

The_Gorgonzola · 09-02-2002, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lizard:
Ruse references Cal Thomas' amazingly ill-informed editorial in this article, "Genesis has no place in science class."

By Michael Ruse
Tallahassee Democrat

[/URL]

From the article:

Quote:

The circumstantial evidence for evolution is overwhelming, and before you start whining that circumstantial evidence can never be definitive ask yourself which you would find most convincing in a rape case: eyewitness testimony or DNA fingerprinting?

hmm...I wonder if those that he would have answer this question even know what "DNA fingerprinting" is?

Reminds me of the first OJ trial:

Interviewer: Why weren't you convinced of his guilt by the DNA evidence?

Interviewee: All that proves is that people have DNA. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Gorgo

[ September 02, 2002: Message edited by: The_Gorgonzola ]

tgamble · 09-02-2002, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lizard:
As a mark of respect to those who lost their lives last Sept. 11, suppose the federal government decided to erect a monument on the site of the World Trade Center. Suppose also that, as an act of reconciliation, it decided to celebrate all of the major faiths of the world: Christianity, Judaism and the others, including Islam. I suspect that many of us would think this an appropriate and moving project.

But it would be illegal. The simple fact is that the United States Constitution puts a fire wall between religion and any and all government-sponsored activities. The First Amendment states that there is to be no establishment of religion, and this means that church and state are to be kept apart.

Maybe this is a question for the CSS forum but how is the above a violation of church and state? It's not the establishment of any paticular religion. Having symbols of different religions representing unity and reconciliation doesn't sound like such a bad idea.

ksagnostic · 09-02-2002, 05:22 PM

Good parts:

"Even ignoring the constitutional issues, education does not mean the indifferent purveying of opposing ideas and asking students to make up their own minds. If we heard that the new medical school at FSU was going to present, alongside conventional medicine, Christian Science healing, black magic and heaven knows what else, we would think the faculty had gone out of their minds. Education, rather, is presenting the best that we have along with the tools to revise and advance."

AND

"The experts in the field make the decisions and pass them on to the educators. Science tells us that evolution is the answer. Let us leave matters at that and move on to other issues."

Well done, Mr. Ruse!

Albion · 09-02-2002, 05:22 PM

Quote:

From Ruse's article: "Even ignoring the constitutional issues, education does not mean the indifferent purveying of opposing ideas and asking students to make up their own minds. If we heard that the new medical school at FSU was going to present, alongside conventional medicine, Christian Science healing, black magic and heaven knows what else, we would think the faculty had gone out of their minds. Education, rather, is presenting the best that we have along with the tools to revise and advance."

Exxcellent!

Starboy · 09-02-2002, 05:44 PM

Not all my fellow Tallahasseans are dunder heads. Between Jeb and his brother, they have it covered.

From the new capitol of the Banana Christian Republic

Starboy

Lizard · 09-02-2002, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lizard:
As a mark of respect to those who lost their lives last Sept. 11, suppose the federal government decided to erect a monument on the site of the World Trade Center. Suppose also that, as an act of reconciliation, it decided to celebrate all of the major faiths of the world: Christianity, Judaism and the others, including Islam. I suspect that many of us would think this an appropriate and moving project.

But it would be illegal. The simple fact is that the United States Constitution puts a fire wall between religion and any and all government-sponsored activities. The First Amendment states that there is to be no establishment of religion, and this means that church and state are to be kept apart.
>>>

Maybe this is a question for the CSS forum but how is the above a violation of church and state? It's not the establishment of any paticular religion. Having symbols of different religions representing unity and reconciliation doesn't sound like such a bad idea.

The First Amendment prohibits the U.S. government from promoting any religion over others. Unless the government erected symbols of every religion, it would be unconstitutional. That's why it's best to keep all religious ideas out of government and education. The idea is that the government is of, by, and for all the people, and therefore, it should champion no religions views over others.

I know the right-wing Christians think America is a "Christian nation," but it was founded by men who were mostly Unitarians or Deists. As the RRR folks seem to forget, one of the main reasons Brits established colonies in America in the first place was religious persecution back home. The Founders determined that religious freedom depended on severing the tie between government and religion. As a result, whereas religion has withered in Western countries which have an official state religion (e.g., Great Britan), it has flourished in America.

Liquidrage · 09-02-2002, 06:21 PM

Honestly I am a bit surprised to see this in the local paper.
While Tallahassee isn't as religiously sedated as many other southern cities, religion when presented publically is usually more conservative.

09-02-2002, 04:39 PM	#1
Lizard Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Kansas Posts: 169	Ruse: Genesis has no place in science class Ruse references Cal Thomas' amazingly ill-informed editorial in this article, "Genesis has no place in science class." By Michael Ruse Tallahassee Democrat <a href="http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/news/opinion/3964995.htm" target="_blank">http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/news/opinion/3964995.htm</a>

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09-02-2002, 05:22 PM	#4
ksagnostic Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Wichita, KS, USA Posts: 2,514	Good parts: "Even ignoring the constitutional issues, education does not mean the indifferent purveying of opposing ideas and asking students to make up their own minds. If we heard that the new medical school at FSU was going to present, alongside conventional medicine, Christian Science healing, black magic and heaven knows what else, we would think the faculty had gone out of their minds. Education, rather, is presenting the best that we have along with the tools to revise and advance." AND "The experts in the field make the decisions and pass them on to the educators. Science tells us that evolution is the answer. Let us leave matters at that and move on to other issues." Well done, Mr. Ruse!

09-02-2002, 05:44 PM	#6
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	Not all my fellow Tallahasseans are dunder heads. Between Jeb and his brother, they have it covered. From the new capitol of the Banana Christian Republic Starboy

09-02-2002, 06:21 PM	#8
Liquidrage Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tallahassee Posts: 1,301	Honestly I am a bit surprised to see this in the local paper. While Tallahassee isn't as religiously sedated as many other southern cities, religion when presented publically is usually more conservative.

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