epic

this topic is based on the assumption that our previous belief in a god, throughout the ages, which has been used to create the kind of meaning and purpose in life that each person needs to, indeed, live their life in a healthy state, is now gone -- the purpose of this thread is not to debate the merits of creationism or god -- instead, let's assume that this belief system has completely been replaced by a knowledge that states, while god MAY have initiated the big bang -- creationism, as a belief, is not inherantly necessary to explain how we got here, and thus, god cannot create the purpose and meaning to life that we need to, ultimately, survive our daily lives.

with this "death of god" in our understanding, and with it, the lack of godly meaning and purpose to our lives, the most obvious avenue is, then, as individuals, to create ones own meaning and purpose in each of our lives. this can be evidenced in successful artists, sportspeople, scientists, or anyone else who's devoted their lives to something they truely "believed" in -- without the need for a god figure to give them that purpose. and i'm quite sure that there are many individuals who can, indeed, live their lives with this focused passion in their chosen field, and escape, perhaps somewhat naively, the problems that are the basis of this thread.

however, could it not be an underlying problem, more so, perhaps, in the near future -- but also presently, that individuals will struggle to find the motivation to create their own meaning to their lives, particularly when the truths that state the sheer randomness, purposelessness, and insignificance of each individuals being, in comparison to the entire expanding universe surrounding us, become apparent? could this not be the underlying issue of depression in the 21st century? -- the knowledge that, no matter what one individual may accomplish in their lifetime, that it will merely disipitate into the everflowing sea of past events, most of which, ultimately, will never be remembered or noticed again by anyone? can you remember what accomplishments your great grandmother achieved? and that example is considered within the same family, let alone the world at large. furthermore, why should an individual live their lives if only for the thought of future respect and rememberance? what good is such rememberance if the individual is indeed long gone?

any meaning one creates for themselves, whether it be becoming a successful sportsman to achieving great scientific breakthroughs to raising a family or even, ultimately, loving another, if it is indeed merely a way to survive on earth, by focusing on the good and not the bad, by escaping true meaningless with created notions of purpose -- with that kind of self knowledge and awareness, how does one maintain sanity? how can depression be avoided? is it, in fact, even possible?

DMB

I suffered from depression about 30 years ago. Now I am 63 and obviously have most of my life behind me, I am not depressed. I do mind as I gradually lose certain faculties -- the ageing process is not fun -- but I can't see the things that make my life worthwhile losing their importance any time soon.

Gawdawful

I guess I had an advantage in that in my youth, when I was religious, it wasn't very fulfilling. This is the reason I sought different answers than I was getting from religion. Once I accepted the fact that life really has no meaning, it just is, I was much more able to cope with it.

I have a chemical imbalance, probably genetic, that makes me depressed at times, cynical and pessimistic all the time. I even went through a period about five years ago where suicidal thoughts would just pop into my head. The antidepressant Zoloft helped rid me of those thoughts, but it sure didn't make me into a bouncing happy satisfied person.

Any meaning to life to be found has to come from within. Meaning has come to my life in satisfying my own curiosity, in experiencing as much as I am able, in helping others when I can, in giving a little back to the world and to learn from my mistakes. Anyway, I'm having fun, even without a purpose that would satisfy most people.

Hell, being depressed is just a state of mind that requires time alone to fully manifest itself. Volunteer. Do things. Do something. Travel. Take up a hobby. Do something to fill up that empty time and you'll fill that void in your life. Just about guaranteed.


Warren in Oklahoma, a depressed state

Carlos

Consider the religious makeup of most industrialized nations and compare it to that of the USA: the former group has more disbelievers than the latter. Is there a correlation in the proportion of depression in the respective populations? AFAIK there is not. To me, this is sufficient proof that it is possible to lead a happy and meaningful life without god. While there are many factors that differentiate one culture from another, if the impact of belief in god were so great, we should be able to see its effects more clearly.

The more difficult prospect is leading such a life in an environment that promotes the opposite belief. The beliefs of those close to you as well as those of the culture as a whole either reinforce or threaten your own beliefs. How can you be happy when everyone around you tells you it cannot be so? Even if you hold strongly to beliefs that there is no larger purpose, the conflicts that arise with those around you as a result could cause more grief than you might have to face otherwise.

I think there is meaning in what we do if we choose to believe it is there. Some people aren't willing or able to do this. You have to work at it. Be careful with the opinions others thrust upon you. Be aware of your own thoughts and feelings. Build on what you think of as right and feel is good. For me, that constitutes "purpose." You could even think of searching for a greater purpose as a purpose in itself

Heathen Dawn

Brief and powerless is Man's life; on him and all his race the slow, sure doom falls pitiless and dark. Blind to good and evil, reckless of destruction, omnipotent matter rolls on its relentless way; for Man, condemned to-day to lose his dearest, tomorrow himself to pass through the gate of darkness, it remains only to cherish, ere yet the blow falls, the lofty thoughts that ennoble his little day; disdaining the coward terrors of the slave of Fate, to worship at the shrine that his own hands have built; undismayed by the empire of chance, to preserve a mind free from the wanton tyranny that rules his outward life; proudly defiant of the irresistible forces that tolerate, for a moment, his knowledge and his condemnation, to sustain alone, a weary but unyielding Atlas, the world that his own ideals have fashioned despite the trampling march of unconscious power. -- Bertrand Russell

The materialistic worldview is depressing, no doubt, and many people cannot help drinking the intoxicant of supernaturalism to dull out the pain. That is the reason religion won't go away. But the eyes are witness that there is no mercy in the universe, and only human love is an island of kindness in the midst of the void.

JaeIsGod

Well , I was really depressed as a Christian and now im really depressed as an atheist. Pretty much nothing changed =p

Virgil Tibbs

Personally, I disagree with the entire premise that a deity brings any meaning to life. Yes, religions do brainwash their adherents by telling them over and over that god is the only thing that can bring meaning to their lives. And yet I've never heard any justification for why this should be so. If I were to receive credible evidence that a god existed I would stop being an atheist, but at the same time the god's existence would not bring any additional meaning to my life.

Even if meaning in life could come from god's existence, it would still be up to the person to assign that meaning, so in that sense deriving purpose from god or other supernaturalism is not more special or different from any other means of finding purpose.

Btw, once you are forgotten no one will remember how pious you were, either. If god does not exist and you spent your life worshipping him and doing little else, you wasted your one and only life, and wasted it hardcore, IMO.

Furthermore, if one were to remove everything from their life except religion, almost any person would find that life empty and meaningless. Clearly something else is needed besides god: other people. So even for the die hard theist religion is not the only thing that brings meaning.

I don't see how an afterlife adds anything either: if being here on earth with other people right now cannot in some way bring meaning to your life in and of itself, how is being in heaven with other people in the future going to bring meaning to your life? Either you can find meaning in interpersonal relationships or you can't: the setting should not change anything as far as I can see.

Can atheism rob people of their purpose in life? Only if they abandon god but still cling to unwarranted theistic premise that only god can bring meaning to their lives. Religious indoctrination can cause more damage than it appears at first glance; even if one dismisses theism, its underlying assumptions can stay with you.

Tibbs

Heathen Dawn

Good response, Tibbs.

Secular Elation

Epic, you raise a very good point. Your third paragraph in your post sums up many of the problems I have. I admit that I repeatedly struggle to find the motivation and meaning in my own life. I believe that there really is no purpose or meaning. I just exist, that is all. I'm merely a byproduct of my parent's orgasm. Nothing more. This fact has underlined much of my depression in life. My only option to fight it is to try and not think about it and allow it to bother me.

You really hit the point home when you say, "...the knowledge that, no matter what one individual may accomplish in their lifetime, that it will merely disipitate into the everflowing sea of past events." Ultimately, anything I have accomplished in my life will be irrelevant and eliminated forever. From my point of view, nothing in my life might just as well never have even happened, once I reach death. It is difficult to live through some days when having these thoughts.

But, the fact is, even if religion and gods were true, even if it was a component of my life, even if there was an afterlife, it wouldn't really change a thing. Whether or not a god exists is irrelevant to my supposed purpose or meaning in life. Religion can't dictate to me by falsely fabricating what the meaning of life is, what purpose my life might have. I am much happier living a secular life. Tibbs raises good points.

But this just adds to the hopelessness of my ultimately pointless existence. I have failed to create any meaning for my own life. And so, my only choice is to simply live my life if only to experience the handful of genuine pleasures I may experience in my life. Sometimes I don't even know if it's worth all the negatives in life. But the fact is, this life is all I have. Once it is gone, it is gone forever. It is the only thing I have to hold on to. And so I must do something with it.

reprise

I find it hard to grasp why the notion of life having a "purpose" or a "meaning" is so important to people and why they find the possibility that their existence has no profound significance so disturbing.

I'm a chronic depressive myself, but even during my worst depressive episodes I've never suffered any existential crises.

I'm going to enjoy today - or loathe it - irrespective of whether or not my existence on this planet has some higher purpose. I'm going to bring pleasure - or displeasure - to those with whom I interact whether or not my life serves some undeclared mission.

The idea that "this is all there is" doesn't disturb me any more than the fact that before I was conceived "I" didn't exist disturbs me - and I'm truly at a loss to understand why it disturbs others.