lunachick

..I've been reading kingjames1 view that life without god amounts to nothing, and in death it is also nothing. So I just wanted to say to him (and others who hold that view of people who choose not to believe in god) that, for me anyway, is simply not true. I do'nt need the love of, or fear of, a god to be a moral person. I don't need a god to give my life meaning. I don't need a god to teach my child values. In fact, I believe myself to have stronger morals and a higher regard for all life on this precarious little planet than many theists I've met.
I believe in energy not heaven and hell, and so I believe that when I die, even though I won't be aware anymore, I will still live through the transference of energy. I will become food as I decay. The soil will be richer for my dead flesh and bones. My life force will become evident in the grass; which lives, grows, breathes, dies and decays to become nourishment for something else. I will become part of a natural cycle, and through this I will have a kind of eternal life, through the transference of energy. It is in this way that I will become life again.

And that's my rant for the day.

Jamie_L

When I really get into the dark, gloomy places of my brain, I do sometimes marvel at the fact that there's no point to anything.

When I'm dead. That's it. I'm no more. Advance far enough beyond that, and everyone I love and care about will be dead. Advance beyond that, and all those people will not only be dead, but forgotten. Then, advance far enough beyond that, and the sun swallows the earth, the universe dies (heat death, collapses in on itself, choose your theory). Think far enough ahead, and none of it matters at all.

Then I remember: so what? I like life. I live it. What choice have I? And what does worrying accomplish? Nothing.

Ashes to ashes.

Jamie

Perchance

Lunachick: Well said!

Actually, all the theists I know offline are more afraid of death than I am. One girl told me the other day that she nearly got run down by a car, and that she was so grateful that hadn't happened, because she wanted so badly to live- and she didn't want to live paralyzed or in a coma, either. Which is understandable, but here is a girl who brings her Bible to school every day and says grace over her packed lunch. I have to wonder: why is she so afraid of death if she's convinced she's going to heaven to live forever?

Another theist graduate student I know reacted really, really badly while we were studying Swinburne's poetry. At the news that he'd been atheist (in fact, anti-theist), she asked what he believed happened when he died.

"Nothing. Oblivion," our professor told her.

With a revolted expression on her face, she asked, "Then why didn't he just commit suicide?"

Why is that the people who believe in eternal life after death are so afraid of it?

-Perchance.

[ October 17, 2002: Message edited by: Perchance ]</p>

lisarea

This is one of the most offensive things about Christianity to me. It's so fundamentally selfish. Nothing has any purpose unless you get to experience it yourself, and God is just a big invisible all-seeing cop. (Well, it only gets truly offensive when they accuse me of being amoral.)

Not existing is not a big deal, really. My only real worry about dying is the effect it would have on my family. Does this mean I don't care what happens after I die, just because I'm not going to be floating around watching? Of course not. I want my son, the rest of my family, my friends, and others I know and respect to be happy and healthy; and to a lesser extent, I want the same thing for people who don't exist yet, too.

The fact is that Christianity and many other religions don't really give life any more meaning on a grand scale. (It all comes down to some nebulous mysterious plan on God's part.) The real motivating factors behind Christianity are greed and fear.

Hobbs

kingjames1, if you are reading this, do you think this is a horribly inaccurate misunderstanding of Christianity? If so, you know what we think of your horribly inaccurate misunderstanding of life without your god and of the alleged moral implications of atheism.

Jimmy Higgins

You'd think this would mean that abortion was almost great in a way. Go to God in a state of perfect being, perhaps even as a martyr.

Jimmy Higgins

While that may be true, I do not hold off on the possible idea that there may be something after life, where death is a transition to something else. Not heaven, not nirvana, but maybe something else. Who knows? Well, the Shadow knows, but who else?

Granted, I'm just fine, as many atheists are with the prospect that life ends at death. I guess, for that reason we automatically need to appreciate life more, because what's the purpose if you're going to live miserably?

Sarpedon

People are religious because they are afraid, not people are afraid in spite of their religion. It was this realization that made me stop being religious. I was thinking about that woman murderer in Texas who appealed to then Governor Bush to stay her death penalty because she had become a christian and repented. I reflected that if she really had become a christian, she shouldn't be afraid to die. This simple insight turned me into an atheist, just a few weeks later.

lunachick

I agree that theists are often religious because they are either selfish or are afraid - or both. That whole "my life has meaning because I have God on MY side" is so bogus. The theists I know (and to be honest I don't know very many), tend to do good things for others because of the righteousness they feel - they do it because it'll be like another notch on their god-belt: "If I do this God will favour me" rather than "I do this because these people need someone to help them this way and so I will". The payoff is getting your ticket to heaven paid off, rather than simply the satisfaction that you are making a positive difference to someone's life. I volunteer my time to help kids at risk, who have also been expelled from the school system, to teach them creative writing skills, self-expression, and basic life skills. I am able to do this because I care. That is all. No god is needed.

[ October 17, 2002: Message edited by: lunachick ]</p>