Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Mageth · 06-12-2003, 02:01 PM

In the scene in the NT where the priests complain to Jesus that he doesn't wash he counters by complaining that they reinterpret the law instead of upholding it.

Biff, could you give the scripture ref for that story?

Mageth · 06-12-2003, 02:04 PM

wildernesse:

Is the question what would *I* do? I thought it was what would I have done if I were "a Jew living under the law" 2500 years ago.

To the second, I can't know. To the first, I wouldn't stone my child. I've answered questions like this before.

Other cultures do things that I think are "wrong". I do things that other cultures think is "wrong". Wrong is relative. Of course, I stick with what my culture has taught me, because it's "right". There is no inherent knowing what is "wrong"--morality is taught to us. Which makes it no less powerful--because most of us remain surrounded within our own cultures until we die.

If you consider the Golden Rule as perhaps a more-or-less universal law, it would seem that something like killing a child because he cursed his parents (and many of the other particularly viscious OT laws, and laws of other cultures) would fall under that umbrella. I know that, if I were a child, I wouldn't want to be killed for cursing my parents.

Biff the unclean · 06-12-2003, 02:05 PM

Paladin, if morals are absolute then what about the most moral man of his times Abraham�as in The God of Abraham. Do you think his morals would pass muster in the 21st century?

BioBeing · 06-12-2003, 02:06 PM

My question would be why do Christians not follow these laws today?

Would I be able to use these quotes in a court of law (say even that idiot judge down in Alabama, the one with the statue of the ten commandments) to get away with murder? "But my child cursed me you honor - look I even have it on video. I had to kill him".

Would society be better off if we went "back" to such biblical laws?

(Were they even applied 2500 years ago? Did people really go around killing their own children?)

I gotta say I'm with mageth on this one though. I would not worship such a God.

Mageth · 06-12-2003, 02:10 PM

The Ten Commandments brings up an interesting side issue. The fight is on about whether the Ten Commandments should be posted in public buildings, with many proclaiming that our government is based on Christianity and the Bible. Those that push for this conveniently don't mention the rest of the OT laws, though.

PaladInChrist · 06-12-2003, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biff the unclean
Paladin, if morals are absolute then what about the most moral man of his times Abraham�as in The God of Abraham. Do you think his morals would pass muster in the 21st century?

Be more specific please.

PaladInChrist · 06-12-2003, 02:11 PM

Quote:

The Ten Commandments brings up an interesting side issue. The fight is on about whether the Ten Commandments should be posted in public buildings, with many proclaiming that our government is based on Christianity and the Bible. Those that push for this conveniently don't mention the rest of the OT laws, though.

Perhaps that is because the "rest of the laws" went out the window when the New Covenant became the law?

Love God, Love Each Other...wraps up the 10 commandments...

seebs · 06-12-2003, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BioBeing
My question would be why do Christians not follow these laws today?

I think this question has been answered at least three times in this thread alone.

BioBeing · 06-12-2003, 02:15 PM

That was part of my intention in mentioning them, mageth

Quote:

Originally posted by PaladInChrist
Perhaps that is because the "rest of the laws" went out the window when the New Covenant became the law?

Love God, Love Each Other...wraps up the 10 commandments...

But - Jesus came to uphold the laws, not rewrite them, didn't he? Where does the new covanant come from? Did God change his mind

Biff the unclean · 06-12-2003, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mageth
In the scene in the NT where the priests complain to Jesus that he doesn't wash he counters by complaining that they reinterpret the law instead of upholding it.

Biff, could you give the scripture ref for that story?

Yeah, sure....it's in Mark (KJV)

Quote:

7:9
And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
7:10
For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
7:11
But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
7:12
And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
7:13
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Gives a whole new meaning to "suffer onto me the little children"

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06-12-2003, 02:01 PM	#41
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	In the scene in the NT where the priests complain to Jesus that he doesn't wash he counters by complaining that they reinterpret the law instead of upholding it. Biff, could you give the scripture ref for that story?

06-12-2003, 02:04 PM	#42
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	wildernesse: Is the question what would I do? I thought it was what would I have done if I were "a Jew living under the law" 2500 years ago. To the second, I can't know. To the first, I wouldn't stone my child. I've answered questions like this before. Other cultures do things that I think are "wrong". I do things that other cultures think is "wrong". Wrong is relative. Of course, I stick with what my culture has taught me, because it's "right". There is no inherent knowing what is "wrong"--morality is taught to us. Which makes it no less powerful--because most of us remain surrounded within our own cultures until we die. If you consider the Golden Rule as perhaps a more-or-less universal law, it would seem that something like killing a child because he cursed his parents (and many of the other particularly viscious OT laws, and laws of other cultures) would fall under that umbrella. I know that, if I were a child, I wouldn't want to be killed for cursing my parents.

06-12-2003, 02:05 PM	#43
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	Paladin, if morals are absolute then what about the most moral man of his times Abraham�as in The God of Abraham. Do you think his morals would pass muster in the 21st century?

06-12-2003, 02:06 PM	#44
BioBeing Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 6,004	My question would be why do Christians not follow these laws today? Would I be able to use these quotes in a court of law (say even that idiot judge down in Alabama, the one with the statue of the ten commandments) to get away with murder? "But my child cursed me you honor - look I even have it on video. I had to kill him". Would society be better off if we went "back" to such biblical laws? (Were they even applied 2500 years ago? Did people really go around killing their own children?) I gotta say I'm with mageth on this one though. I would not worship such a God.

06-12-2003, 02:10 PM	#45
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	The Ten Commandments brings up an interesting side issue. The fight is on about whether the Ten Commandments should be posted in public buildings, with many proclaiming that our government is based on Christianity and the Bible. Those that push for this conveniently don't mention the rest of the OT laws, though.

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