Polar Bear

(mods: didn't know where else to place this post, hope it's OK here.)

I would LOVE it if one of the skeptical magicians (Randi, Penn & Teller, etc.) or even one of the popular modern ones (David Blaine) would do a TV special depicting the miracles of Jesus as well as his crucifixion and resurrection.

Ideally, it would be done in a David Blaine "street magic" style with unrehearsed unpaid witnesses chosen at random on the street. The magician would turn water into wine, feed 500 people with food meant for 5, walk on water, and so on. If Blaine can fool people into thinking that he's levitating, biting quarters in half and magically regenerating them, or breaking his own arm, then surely he can fool them into thinking that he is the Messiah.

Faith healing would also be essential. I know that's already been exposed numerous times, but it would be great to see supposedly "lame" people get up and walk and so forth. The magician could even bring a person back from the dead -- heck, any of us could, it's called CPR.

The ultimate would be a recreation of the crucifixion and resurrection, which would be a Houdini-style endurance thing. We already know that it's possible to be crucified and live (people in the Phillippines do it all the time in honor of their Lord); we also already know that it is possible for a person to be seemingly dead and sealed in an inescapable chamber, then to somehow vanish and reappear outside the chamber, alive and well.

Perhaps the hard part would be simulating the side wound.

I know it's far too controversial to ever happen, but one can dream, right?

Splat

Ooo. That's brilliant. It would be professional suicide, but what a great way to retire!

(How does Blaine do that levitation thing?!?)

Nickolaus

I disagree, it would lend credibility in the popular mind to the idea that Jebus actually performed such miracles, rather than someone just writing in a book that he did. It shifts the debate so that we are stuck defending the more untenable position (that the account of the bible is accurate, but Jebus purposely deceived everyone), instead of dismissing the ridiculous claims of a 2000 yr old book.

xstvn

Why that is merely the
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/Stage/7308/balducci.html" target="_blank">Balducci Levitation Trick</a>

and wires of course

I ate Pascal's Wafer

I disagree. It would support our position because it could be shown that a good magician can perform these same "miracles". The Christians are not claiming that Jesus was a magician performing parlor tricks. They are claiming that his tricks are divine miracles. Normal humans are not supposed to perform miracles, which goes to show that Jesus could just as well be a good magician rather than a divine deity.

The Christian would be shooting himself in the foot if he admitted that Jesus was a magician who purposely deceived everyone. If Jesus deceived people with these miracles, why would we trust him with what he told us about heaven? He deceived us once, so what's stopping him from deceiving us again? The Christian would be handing us the debate if they agreed that Jesus was a clever magician.

-Nick

Living Dead Chipmunk

Blaine's levitation is called something like Fibonacci Levitation, right?

NM, xstvn beat me to it.

pescifish

It's a tough one to place, that's for sure, Polar Bear!

But, sorry, I don't think SL&S is the place. I could send it to Misc Discussions, but then you might only get people talking about current magic tricks.

I thought you might get some solid discussion about how it could be done in Science & Skepticism, but I hope that in General Religious Discussions they might discuss both how AND why.

pescifish,
moderator SL&S

Evangelion

Let me get this straight. You are saying that if a modern stage magician - complete with all the sophisticated materials and techniques at his disposal (materials and techinques that simply were not available to a travelling preacher of the ANE) can duplicate the miracles of Jesus, this proves... something.

I see.

Evangelion

Polar Bear -

To be perfectly honest, so would I. It might cause a bit of a ruckus in the USA (where fundies reign and atheists tread with caution), but the civilised world would certainly enjoy it.

I can imagine Penn crucifying Teller quite happily!

[ December 08, 2002: Message edited by: Evangelion ]</p>

Jayjay

Might be moderately entertaining. But, I have to agree with Nickolaus about the relevance of such acts in demonstrating that Jesus was a quack... after all, his miracles were most likely not mere street magic, but just rumors plagiarized from mythology and attributed to the guy several decades after his death.