Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Biff the unclean · 07-07-2003, 05:02 PM

Christ took the place of animal sacrifice and he, himself became the sacrificial lamb.
Just like tom Hanks in Joe Versus the Volcano

When Christ's blood was spilled, it attoned for all sin and all that would ever be if one would just accept the forgiveness.
Except god was quite specific about sacrifices. First human sacrifices were a big no no.
Secondly Jesus wasn't killed on an altar in the temple. His throat wasn't slit and the blood collected. His meat wasn't burned so that the smell of his roasting would be pleasing to god.
The cops arrested him and executed him with a couple of other felons. That was not a sacrifice that was a common execution.

When Christ became sin, God turned from him.
You could make a case for this if it was somewhere in the bible. But it isn't.
That is when he cried out and asked god why he had forsaken Christ.
If you knew anything about mythology you would know that a Christ is a type of demigod. The word comes from the demigod Christna's name (spelling changed in the late 1800's to "Krishna") They all died and came back to life at the beginning of spring.
If you read the bible you would know that the other gospels that tell this story contradict this one and give him completely different last words.
When jesus was resurrected, he was given a knew body, one without sin or blemish.
Jesus does not get a new body in the NT. In fact he allows St Thomas to poke his fingers in the gaping wounds�that's hardly without blemish.
He was perfect and sinless,
So what? I mean it's nice and all, but who cares? Sounds pretty boring.
but his blood bore our sins.
Who asked him?
The Jews certainly didn't. They have no trouble at all taking care of their own sins every year on the Day of Atonement. They have no so called original sin.
The Hellenists certainly didn't. They didn't have sin, never even heard of Yahweh.
Only the Christians make their god out to be such a clear and present danger to humanity that we need to be saved from him.

Biff the unclean · 07-07-2003, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Go get crucified to save a murderer please, then you can speak as though you have a clue. :banghead:

In a recent rerun of Smallville Clark Kent wonders if he would be brave enough to face combat, as a schoolmate had just been killed in action, if bullets didn't bounce off him.
Same goes for your silly superhero. Death bounced off him...and since it did...and since he knew it would and said so ahead of time...there was no sacrifice.

winstonjen · 07-07-2003, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Go get crucified to save a murderer please, then you can speak as though you have a clue. :banghead:

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

If you can guarantee my resurrection and eternal bliss, show me the cruxifix!:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

winstonjen · 07-07-2003, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
He didn't sacrifice himself to appease His own anger, He came to Earth to teach of the Kingdom of God, and save humanity from its crimes.

Which wouldn't be needed if he didn't get angry at humanity.

Magus55 · 07-07-2003, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by winstonjen
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

If you can guarantee my resurrection and eternal bliss, show me the cruxifix!:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

Sorry, doesn't work that way - Jesus already had eternal bliss before coming to Earth. You get nothing out of this that you didn't already have.

Magus55 · 07-07-2003, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by winstonjen
Which wouldn't be needed if he didn't get angry at humanity.

God has to punish those who break the law, if he doesn't, then He isn't being righteous.

winstonjen · 07-07-2003, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Sorry, doesn't work that way - Jesus already had eternal bliss before coming to Earth. You get nothing out of this that you didn't already have.

Except for billions of worshippers, which was mentioned in numerous threads AND THE BIBLE, which you have repeatedly ignored.

cydonia · 07-07-2003, 06:19 PM

The sacrafice of Jesus is one of the main things that helped me move away from christianity. It makes as little sense to me as most here.

I think the word sacrafice is being used loosely. The only way I can imagine there being any "sacrafice" was the supposed physical pain Jesus experienced on the cross. But since he became more powerful afterwards, it seems to me maybe it would be better described as "taking on the burden of physical pain for a specific amount of time".

But his own father made him do that, not me. I don't see how it's a gift, I didn't eat the apple. Now I need forgiveness for something I didn't do? And I am supposed to feel genuine love for the person who supposedly can save me from the calamity He created to begin with? WTF?

The whole thing strikes me as similar to battered wife syndrome. Oh I love him, I really really do, and if I continue to love him he won't hit me again. Or burn me for eternity.

End ramble.

I ate Pascal's Wafer · 07-07-2003, 06:19 PM

Quote:

And if He didn't have to punish sinners, He wouldn't be a righteous God. God has to punish those who break the law, if he doesn't, then He isn't being righteous.

An eternal punishment in hell is hardly righteous, either. The punishment should fit the crime. There is no crime that a finite entity can commit which would deserve an eternity in hell.

-Nick

Hedwig · 07-07-2003, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
God has to punish those who break the law, if he doesn't, then He isn't being righteous.

What is your definition of righteous, btw?

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07-07-2003, 05:02 PM	#11
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	Christ took the place of animal sacrifice and he, himself became the sacrificial lamb. Just like tom Hanks in Joe Versus the Volcano When Christ's blood was spilled, it attoned for all sin and all that would ever be if one would just accept the forgiveness. Except god was quite specific about sacrifices. First human sacrifices were a big no no. Secondly Jesus wasn't killed on an altar in the temple. His throat wasn't slit and the blood collected. His meat wasn't burned so that the smell of his roasting would be pleasing to god. The cops arrested him and executed him with a couple of other felons. That was not a sacrifice that was a common execution. When Christ became sin, God turned from him. You could make a case for this if it was somewhere in the bible. But it isn't. That is when he cried out and asked god why he had forsaken Christ. If you knew anything about mythology you would know that a Christ is a type of demigod. The word comes from the demigod Christna's name (spelling changed in the late 1800's to "Krishna") They all died and came back to life at the beginning of spring. If you read the bible you would know that the other gospels that tell this story contradict this one and give him completely different last words. When jesus was resurrected, he was given a knew body, one without sin or blemish. Jesus does not get a new body in the NT. In fact he allows St Thomas to poke his fingers in the gaping wounds�that's hardly without blemish. He was perfect and sinless, So what? I mean it's nice and all, but who cares? Sounds pretty boring. but his blood bore our sins. Who asked him? The Jews certainly didn't. They have no trouble at all taking care of their own sins every year on the Day of Atonement. They have no so called original sin. The Hellenists certainly didn't. They didn't have sin, never even heard of Yahweh. Only the Christians make their god out to be such a clear and present danger to humanity that we need to be saved from him.

07-07-2003, 06:19 PM	#18
cydonia Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: southern california Posts: 1,002	The sacrafice of Jesus is one of the main things that helped me move away from christianity. It makes as little sense to me as most here. I think the word sacrafice is being used loosely. The only way I can imagine there being any "sacrafice" was the supposed physical pain Jesus experienced on the cross. But since he became more powerful afterwards, it seems to me maybe it would be better described as "taking on the burden of physical pain for a specific amount of time". But his own father made him do that, not me. I don't see how it's a gift, I didn't eat the apple. Now I need forgiveness for something I didn't do? And I am supposed to feel genuine love for the person who supposedly can save me from the calamity He created to begin with? WTF? The whole thing strikes me as similar to battered wife syndrome. Oh I love him, I really really do, and if I continue to love him he won't hit me again. Or burn me for eternity. End ramble.

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