broken banjo

hee hee hee ... i know its true <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" /> no matter what anyone says ... hee hee hee

Sephiroth

Indeed, then I'm sure you can answer me this question (which I never got a response to), why is the story of Herod killing all the Bethlehem infants found only in the Bible and not in any other document? If you don't answer then well, enjoy your myth.

PS: Were you Fastfalcon?

ax

skeptical and I had this debate in "the bible was not written for science" in the biblical crit and arch. forum. I think it's because they all had different stories of jesus (plus the author wanted to relate jesus to the moses thing).

broken banjo

are u talking to me?
if so, sorry i have no answer
and yes thanku i will enjoy my 'myth'
and ..what is this fastfalcon u speak of?

Queen of Swords

Forget the birdie, this sounds more like jarjar-sa.

NOGO

Strange that you make this a matter of trusting God and quote the story of Adam and Eve.
My reading of this story leads me to think that God is not trustworthy for he lied to them.
On the other hand the serpent told the truth. See for yourself.

Gen 2:17
but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

So God does not want humans to know good and evil.
Note that God says that "for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die"
Well, they did not die on that day. More on this point later.
By the way nothing in the text gives even a clue that Adam and Eve were immortal before they ate the fruit. In fact it is clear they they were mortal.

Gen 2:25
And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

They did not know that it was shameful to be naked. Blissful naivety. Not knowing what is good and what is bad.


Gen 3:4-5
The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die!
"For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

All this is correct they did not die and their eyes opened and knew good and evil.

Gen 3:7
Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings.

According to the bible this is where humnity acquired the ability to tell what is right and what is wrong.
That is why they suddenly discovered that they were naked.
Humanity aquired this ability and it seems that God himself could not take it away.

Gen 3:10-11
He said, "I heard the sound of You in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid myself." And He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?"

"Who told you that you were naked?" Strange that God asked this question like that. He says Who and not What?,
for His next question was "Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"


Gen 3:22
Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"--

Man is like one of us, knowing good and evil.
Note that God did not want man to eat from the tree of life and live forever. Man was mortal and did not die when (or the day) he ate of the tree of good and evil.

So the serpent was correct in every aspect. Man did not die and was like the Gods, kowing good and evil.

Now, who would you trust?
A liar?
or someone who tells it like it is?

HelenM

I've read it a number of times, actually.

I don't like to play 'my interpretation is better than yours'. The only comment I'll make is that I don't see how Adam and Eve were any more like God [in any beneficial way] after they ate than before. So I don't think that was truthful to tell them they would be.

But - if you think the serpent told them the truth then you can go worship the serpent...it's up to you!

love
Helen

NOGO

I don't want to play 'my interpretation is better than yours' either. The whole point about debating is to see whether one's interpretation stands up to criticism.


As for your comment on "becoming more like God", my point is not just that the serpent told them so but also that God himself admitted it in Gen 3:22.

Gen 3:22
Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"--

So your point of view is at odds with Gen 3:22 which plainly states that man has become more like God.

Note in particular ...
"he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"--
... which would make him even more like God.

As for your last statement, I do not worship anybody. The notion is antiquated.

Take care
NOGO

[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: NOGO ]</p>

HelenM

Oh, I wouldn't say that. It pays dividends to worship one's SO, I expect...

In its most basic meaning, worship simply means giving something/someone their due...recognizing their worth...actually.

love
Helen

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by NOGO:
<strong>

Gen 3:22
Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"</strong>

Thanks, I overlooked this verse when I was attempting to debate Mike/Smoke Eater.

I doubt it would have made a difference to him, but it's nice to be proven right.