NFLP

The following is an excerpt posted by an arrogant young celebrity-preacher wannabe [my opinion] in his forum <a href="http://forum.jcsm.org/jcsmforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=716" target="_blank">http://forum.jcsm.org/jcsmforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=716</a>
All this is beyond my ken; anyone have the time to answer some of the specifics? Thank you.


Although the rock strata do not represent a series of epochs of Earth history, as is widely believed, they still follow a general pattern. For example, relatively immobile and bottom-dwelling sea creatures tend to be found in the lower strata that contain complex organisms, and the mobile land vertebrates tend to be found in the top layers. Consider the following factors:

Vertebrate fossils are exceedingly rare compared with invertebrate (without a backbone) sea creatures. The vast proportion of the fossil record is invertebrate sea creatures, and plant material in the form of coal and oil. Vertebrate fossils are relatively rare and human fossils are even rarer.2

If there were, say, 10 million people at the time of the Flood5 and all their bodies were preserved and uniformly distributed throughout the 700 million cubic kilometres of fossil-bearing sedimentary rock layers, only one would be found in every 70 cubic kilometres of rock. Thus you would be unlikely to find even one human fossil.

A global Flood beginning with the breaking up of the fountains of the great deep would tend to bury bottom-dwelling sea creatures first – many of these are immobile, or relatively so. They are also abundant and generally robust (for example, shellfish).6 As the waters rose to envelop the land, land creatures would be buried last.7 Also, water plants would tend to be buried before land-based swamp plants, which, in turn would be buried before upland plants.

On the other hand, land animals, such as mammals and birds, being mobile (especially birds), could escape to higher ground and be the last to succumb. People would cling to rafts, logs etc. until the very end and then tend to bloat and float and be scavenged by fish, with the bones breaking down rather quickly, rather than being preserved. This would make human fossils from the Flood exceedingly rare.

Further, the more mobile, intelligent animals would tend to survive the Flood longest and be buried last, so their remains would be vulnerable to erosion by the receding floodwaters at the end of the Flood and in the aftermath of the Flood. Hence their remains would tend to be destroyed. The intelligence factor could partly account for the apparent separation of dinosaurs and mammals such as cattle, for example.8

Another factor is the sorting action of water. A coal seam at Yallourn in Victoria, Australia, has a 0.5 m thick layer of 50 % pollen. The only way such a layer of pollen could be obtained is through the sorting action of water in a massive watery catastrophe that gathered the plant material from a large area and deposited it in a basin in the Yallourn area.

‘Cope’s Rule’ describes the tendency of fossils (e.g. shellfish) to get bigger as you trace them upward through the geological strata. But why should evolution make things generally bigger? Indeed, living forms of fossils tend to be smaller than their fossil ancestors. A better explanation may be the sorting action of water.9

See geologist Woodmorappe’s paper for an in-depth treatment of the fossil record of cephalopods (such as octopuses and squid) and how it concurs with Creation and the Flood.10

These are some factors that could account for the patterns seen in the fossil record, including the general absence of human fossils in Flood deposits. Most of the fossil record does not represent a history of life on Earth, but the order of burial during the Flood. We would expect a pattern with a global Flood, but not an entirely consistent pattern, and this is what we find in the geological strata.

There are problems in reconstructing any historical event, but especially one that has no modern analogue. And such is the Flood.11 So we have problems imagining the precise sequence of events by which the Flood eroded and deposited material, creating fossils. It may well be that some enterprising creationist scientists will come up with a model of the Flood that will fully account for the fossil and rock sequences.

Of interest in this regard is the TAB (Tectonically Associated Biological) provinces model of Woodmorappe.5 Dr Tasman Walker has suggested a model of the Flood that also seems to explain much of the data.12 The catastrophic plate tectonics model of Drs Austin, Baumgardner, and colleagues also looks interesting in explaining much of the fossil distribution (see Chapter 11). Other models are being developed which may also be helpful in explaining the evidence.13

One can be confident that the evolutionary view of Earth history is wrong and the record in the rocks and fossils, including the distribution of human fossils, makes much more sense in the light of the Bible’s account of Creation, the Fall and the Flood.

When God pronounced judgment on the world, He said, ‘I will destroy [blot out] man whom I have created from the face of the earth’ (Gen. 6:7). Perhaps the lack of pre-flood human fossils is part of the fulfillment of this judgment?

6 However, the preservation of impressions of soft creatures such as jellyfish also occurs, and this testifies to the rapidity of burial.

7 The Bible suggests the Flood began in the ‘great deep’ (the sea). See p.157.

8 Most creationists would regard large mammal fossil deposits, such as in the John Day County of Oregon, USA, as post-Flood.

9 Although bigger rocks tend to be sorted to the bottom, larger shellfish, for example, are overall less dense than smaller ones and could be deposited after smaller ones in a sorting situation.

10 Woodmorappe, J., 1978, The cephalopods in the creation and the universal Deluge. Creation Research Society Quarterly 15(2):94—112.

11 Secular geologists wrongly assume that all Earth’s history was shaped by the same processes we see happening today – this is the doctrine of uniformitarianism, which has directed geology for the last 200 years. As there is no global flood happening today, such thinking prevents most of today’s geologists from seeing any evidence for the Flood – they try to explain the evidence seen in the present by the processes seen operating only in the present. The Bible has a prophecy, in 2 Peter 3:3—7, regarding this wrong approach to geology that denies miraculous creation and the Deluge.

12 Walker, T., 1994. A biblical geologic model. Proc. Third ICC, pp. 581—92.

13 Oard, Michael, personal communication.

This was an excerpt from Answers In Genesis. Since it was very fluid and relatively brief, I decided not to paraphrase it. Enjoy!

JG

tgamble

[QUOTE]Originally posted by NFLP:
[QB]The following is an excerpt posted by an arrogant young celebrity-preacher wannabe [my opinion] in his forum <a href="http://forum.jcsm.org/jcsmforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=716" target="_blank">http://forum.jcsm.org/jcsmforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=716</a>
All this is beyond my ken; anyone have the time to answer some of the specifics? Thank you.

<a href="http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/2437/" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/2437/</a>

tgamble

patrick could chew this guy up, spit him out and and not even break a sweat.

Duvenoy

I think you will find virtually all of this hogwash refuted here:

<a href="http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/" target="_blank">http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/</a>

doov

Amen-Moses

I've always wondered why these bosos think a flood would bury anything at all. Sediments come from erosion which takes time, shitloads of time. A single year of even a global flood would not created enough sediments to bury a single large mammal and yet supposedly 300 metre deep fossil deposits (with of all things, Whales on top!) are supposed to have been caused by a single year long event?

Anyhow when any creationist can explain how a single flood deposit can have sand dunes (showing delicate structures like wind eddies) on top of marine deposits and below shallow sea deposits all of which are below several million years of unbroken mammalian and later human occupation layers then I'll eat my fucking hat.

Amen-Moses

NFLP

If Patrick would be so inclined, I'd like to see him visit that site and do a little munching on Jason's ego.

Camaban

Quite amusing, that site is.

If he makes a decent amount of money out of being a preacher, I swear (metaphorically) I'm going to do the same, "find christ" etc, and start making money by BSing (much easiert than becoming a lawyer)

Duvenoy

Actually, Amen, the point is moot, I think. In another thread, the sheer volumn and violence of the water necessary to cover the earth in such a brief amount of time was discussed. I think it would probably have ripped loose the topsoil clear down to bedrock. Any and all fossils found would have been a helter-skelter of all species including our own.

But of course, there would be no one to find them, would there?

doov

tgamble

You sadistic bastard! Letting patrick loose on this guy would cause a blood bath. It would be a slaughter, a masacre, he'd tear him into little pieces and walk away with so much as a scratch. It would be horrible to watch.

Go for it Pat!!

tgamble

But with little difference...