Hubble head

After pondering another thread I wondered, why do we even need faith? If we use faith in science isn't it called speculation based on observation? In religion it takes on a whole myriad of definitions; all leading me to the same conclusion.

The religionists say "Have faith, accept faith, be faithful, one cannot live without faith, ect.". If you replace the word 'faith' with 'truth' you get an entirely different meaning. Why accept faith when you can have knowledge?

Some have "faith" (belief without proven knowledge) a god exists, and then jump to the conclusion that it must be true because their faith in it is so strong they cannot see other possibilities. It's called positive thinking in this respect. While some have strong religious faith, I think most really just have hope.

Prayer is a part of it. One asks for favors on their behalf as a good person in the eyes of a powerful but invisible granting force. Faiths, hopes and wishes are all included in prayer.

Again, it is a complete mystery why such a large and “good” organization asks it followers to put so little in truth and action and so much in faith and prayer.

Starboy

Science, I like your name. Are you saying that because we know so much more about our surroundings and how they work then in the past (such as the 1st century) that accepting other explainations whose only justification is "faith" is no longer a reasonable thing to do?

Starboy

Hubble head

That's a big part of it. The god never said his words and how they're interpreted would change but they have. Some have gone as far as creating their own sciences that simply "remove" certain proven constants in our nature to hold up their beliefs a little longer.

For every scientific discovery that comes along and forces the logical displacement of a once held religious belief we hear the volume go up from religious leaders asking their flock to just ignore science and have more faith. They use that word faith more and more as science makes headway.

How much longer can faith go on before more facts reduce it to simple hope and then, eventually, nothing more than a fool's wish?

In this day and age religion seems to have absolutely nothing but its faith to hold it up.

schu

My related question is why do so many people have respect for this unjustified faith? We have people on these boards who are marshmallow/salad bar xians, but ultimately seem to have abdicated their reason when it comes to religion. They may deserve some respect for not being snot ugly like the fundies usually are, but I have no respect for their reasoning powers when they believe in a big daddy up in the sky.

That religion has ONLY faith to support it will be, I think, its downfall. It seems to be happening in Europe and some places in So. America. Uruguay is something like 50% agnostic.

I'm of the opinion that a fool should be exposed for his foolishness. Can we expect them to change if they are not challenged?

Who can we expect to expose them? The government? Not likely. Those in government benefit by letting them stay fools. All the backbiting churches will stand together on this one effort. Keeping the foolish faithful sending in the donations.

No, only independent freethinkers can expose them. The Mark Twains, the H.L. Menckens and the Robert G. Ingersolls. It seems like there are very few of them around these days or if there are some their voices are cut off.

Zentraedi

Speculation based on observation for those who do scientific experiments, but not for the layman who puts faith in the results. You require faith in everything. Its how you select what you put faith in, that helps determine a truth. Putting faith in something that has nothing to back up its claims, is poor judgement. So why should it be any different with god? The real trick to thinking this way is to leave your mind open. There will not always be back up for a claim that could be true.

[ November 14, 2002: Message edited by: Zentraedi ]</p>

Heathen Dawn

People crave faith because they want to be part of something bigger and better - part of a plan in which they have high hopes. In the naturalistic scheme of things, we are part of no plan at all, and we have no hope beyond for anything beyond this life. The atheistic life, the life of total unfaith, is a nightmare come true for many people.

Fides est aqua vitae pro animam - faith is water of life for the soul.

Hawkingfan

That is true. I agree. But we feel that there is a difference, however. We feel that not only is there nothing to back up the claims made by the Bible, but also there is evidence that it is a fabricated lie (that is our interpretation, of course--even by keeping an open mind). There will not always be back up for a claim that could be true, but when there is (alleged) evidence that it is false, our minds lead us elsewhere in order to solve the problem.