Bible Humper

Joe Sixpack doesn't give a shit about the history of occult symbols, Kind Bud. Tell me, in your own words, what the average Joe associates with "666" and "pentagrams", not what he should know, but what he thinks he knows. I want to see if you are going to lie to me or give an honest answer.

I answered this, you scrolled past it.

Autonemesis

Then you'll withdraw the argument that depends on this analogy that you've now renounced?

Yes, you compared admitting to being a satanist to admitting to being a pedophile - a criminal. The two admissions are not at all analogous.

RyanS2

Kind Bud, I thank you for your time in defending my beliefs, but this won't go anywhere. Splashing is playing a game called "Musical Chairs". Here's how it works. He first claims that all of the symbols and iconography are from Christianity. I give him a detailed response on why they are not. So he pulls that chair out, and the new one is:

In this new argument, Splashing now has advanced knowledge of sociology and can tell us all about the average Joe Sixpack. In this new argument, the historical evidence is now worthless, because Splashing says so. If you challenge him on this, that chair will get pulled out and a new one will get set up. It will keep doing so ad infinitum.

Splashing, you claimed to know more about the occult than I do, someone who has been involved in it for years. I would assume that means you are presenting yourself as an expert in the subject. If someone comes here and tells Jeffrey Lowder that he doesn't know jack about atheism, then most would reasonably assume that means this person is claiming advanced knowledge of atheism that is not at Jeffrey Lowder's possession. Just the same as your presumption to know "Joe Sixpack" seems to be a statement that you have advanced knowledge of sociology.

Bible Humper

<img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Kind Bud, are you pushing my buttons for some good natured fun with me here in the rant forum?

A LaVey Satanist is analogous to a fringe gay group that DOES ##NOT## ENGAGE IN PEDOPHILIA, BUT USES THE NAME "PEDOPHILE" TO DESCRIBE THEMSELVES.

Ok?

Bible Humper

Haha, you do so love your strawmen. It takes advanced knowledge of sociology to know that "666" and "pentagrams" are associated with Satan with the vast majority of people who have never heard of LeVey, much less his philosophy?

If you say so, Ry. Actually, don't say so, just say that I'm ignoring the historical relevance of the symbols as your answer, strawmen rOOl. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Your posts are so full of strawmen that I'm looking around for the corn fields. Are you going to address what I wrote in my posts or not?

[ July 31, 2002: Message edited by: Splashing Colours Of Whimsy ]

[ July 31, 2002: Message edited by: Splashing Colours Of Whimsy ]</p>

scigirl

I have a question. . .

Do we actually know, other than occasional anecdotal evidence, what most christians actually think or know about satanists, and the church of satan?

At first I thought that having "satanists" at the march would be a bad idea and inflammatory to the cause, for the reasons mentioned previously.

But maybe not. . . I think the thing that will surprise christians the most is sheer numbers, and not what signs people are holding up. "Wow, look at all those people - and here I thought everyone was a christian!" Then maybe the next time someone wants to post the 10 commandments or whatever because "everyone is a christian," they'll think twice, because they will realize there are a lot of people who do not buy into their mythology.

Or maybe I'm just being too optimistic,

scigirl

Autonemesis

"Joe Sixpack", as you so respectfully refer to the hoi polloi (sarcasm ), doesn't give a shit about a lot of stuff. It's really immaterial whether "he" gives a shit about the history of occult symbols, but your contempt for the "average guy" is apparent. Whatever any satanists might do or say at the Godless Americans march (apart from violence or vandalism, throwing blood and stuff like that - doubtful in the extreme), or even if they don't even show up, the most reactionary elements are going to charge that it was the Devil's handiwork.

Satanists show up and are visible on TV:
"The Godless Americans march for Satan filled the national Mall with reminders of the Devil's influence, with God-forsaken displays of frenzied dancing by pentagram-decorated miscreants and mock goat sacrifices..."

Satanists don't even show up:
"The Godless Americans march for Satan filled the national Mall with reminders of the Devil's influence. One could almost hear the frenzied dancing music and smell the burning goat sacrifices as this God-forsaken band of miscreants..."

scigirl

Heh kind bud, unfortunately I think this third thing will happen:

Satanists do, or don't, show up, with pentagrams, or not. . . . nothing happens, nobody notices.

Sadly that is what I feel may happen. That's why I think bigger is better - let everyone that's anti-organized religion be there, instead of just atheists.

scigirl

[ July 31, 2002: Message edited by: scigirl ]</p>

Autonemesis

No, it's not OK. I've been trying to tell you that I strenuously object to that comparison. Do you understand my objection? It is immaterial whether Satanists actually worship Satan or admit to worship. Worshipping Satan is not a criminal act. Satan doesn't actually exist, so it's no more harmful than Christianity. But pedophilia is an entirely different matter, a real child is harmed and mocking that is not at all comparable to mocking Christianity - even if that was what Satanists are doing. And so I reject that the analogy you're trying to make is valid.

Autonemesis

I think godless is a fine description of what is intended. Anti-religion divisive. But I agree that it's likely there'll be hardly any notice taken if the crowd is in between small enough to laugh at, and too large to ignore. So I'm hoping we'll at least avoid "small enough to laugh at."