Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Bobzammel · 02-03-2003, 09:56 AM

It strikes me that the most Pauline of the Gospels is John. In JOHN we are presented with themes present in many Pauline epistles:Such as duality, with Jesus talking a lot more about the spirit and the flesh, a deeper paranoia of Satan(Who in the other Gospels seems more like his Job persona), more Isolation from the "world", some slight anti-semitism, and a few other elements which seem to line up with Paul's theology, as oppossed to the synoptics, which seem a little less cosmic in comparison. Any thoughts?

Psycho Economist · 02-03-2003, 10:04 AM

The story of John is probably closest to the time of Paul (the turn of the first century), but according to archaeological evidence it is not the earliest. Mark wins by about 20 years (believed to be from about 70 C.E.). Most manuscripts are dated even later, well into the 2nd and 3rd centuries).

GarColga · 02-03-2003, 11:36 AM

The author of "Our Man In Judea: The Secret World Of The First Gospel" has some interesting theories, one of which is that John was the first gospel written:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...421771-8678218

Vorkosigan · 02-03-2003, 02:43 PM

Raymond Brown also thought there was a historical core that was quite early. But John's dependence on Mark IMHO rules out it being the oldest gospel, although it could have an old source (but I doubt it personally).

Vorkosigan

Bobzammel · 02-03-2003, 02:49 PM

Still, it is very "Paulish" in it's concepts. Remember that Paul's theology and claims apparentally did not influence all the Churches. Therefore it's possible that the synoptics were produced by Churches not loyal to Paul. Take for instance the instances in the Gospels where Jesus clearly advocates the Mosaic Law.

MortalWombat · 02-04-2003, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vorkosigan
Raymond Brown also thought there was a historical core that was quite early. But John's dependence on Mark IMHO rules out it being the oldest gospel, although it could have an old source (but I doubt it personally).

Vorkosigan

Just for my own edification, what are the main reasons for the statement that John is dependent on Mark?

02-03-2003, 09:56 AM	#1
Bobzammel Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 276	John the earliest Gospel? It strikes me that the most Pauline of the Gospels is John. In JOHN we are presented with themes present in many Pauline epistles:Such as duality, with Jesus talking a lot more about the spirit and the flesh, a deeper paranoia of Satan(Who in the other Gospels seems more like his Job persona), more Isolation from the "world", some slight anti-semitism, and a few other elements which seem to line up with Paul's theology, as oppossed to the synoptics, which seem a little less cosmic in comparison. Any thoughts?

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02-03-2003, 10:04 AM	#2
Psycho Economist Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Peoria, IL Posts: 854	The story of John is probably closest to the time of Paul (the turn of the first century), but according to archaeological evidence it is not the earliest. Mark wins by about 20 years (believed to be from about 70 C.E.). Most manuscripts are dated even later, well into the 2nd and 3rd centuries).

02-03-2003, 11:36 AM	#3
GarColga Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boise, Idaho, USA Posts: 57	The author of "Our Man In Judea: The Secret World Of The First Gospel" has some interesting theories, one of which is that John was the first gospel written: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...421771-8678218

02-03-2003, 02:43 PM	#4
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	Raymond Brown also thought there was a historical core that was quite early. But John's dependence on Mark IMHO rules out it being the oldest gospel, although it could have an old source (but I doubt it personally). Vorkosigan

02-03-2003, 02:49 PM	#5
Bobzammel Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 276	Still, it is very "Paulish" in it's concepts. Remember that Paul's theology and claims apparentally did not influence all the Churches. Therefore it's possible that the synoptics were produced by Churches not loyal to Paul. Take for instance the instances in the Gospels where Jesus clearly advocates the Mosaic Law.

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