winstonjen

To you it's the truth, to others it's not. Most people want more evidence than just a book, which is 'claimed' to be divinely inspired by its worshippers. Your god came down clearly and convincingly to his people, according to the OT. Why didn't he do it for the other races? And why doesn't he do it now?

Then it proves that god values the free will of terrorists and murderers more than the free will of their victims. :boohoo:

AspenMama

Hello Magus55, I don't believe we've spoken before. You realize that these terrorists did not consider themselves terrorists but prophets on a mission from their God. They believe that they are being serviced by 70 or so virgins in heaven right now. They believe that you are evil and will suffer greatly in their version of hell for your beliefs. They also have a holy book. Why exactly are you correct and they are not? What if you are wrong? You could perhaps burn in their idea of hell...

Finally, what unity do you see in the world today brought about by this event, and "other good things"? Did you notice a little war happening?

winstonjen

I think Magus55 was referring to the unity and togetherness of non-terrorist society. However, I certainly do not believe that the events of 9/11 makes this 'worthwhile', because there are other, less harmful ways to obtain unity.

lpetrich

Magus55:
Well first of all, you need to realize 9/11 was an act made by humans.

However, an omnimax being would be indirectly responsible by omission as well as by commission. Imagine that you hit a little kid as you were driving, and when you are hauled into court for negligent homicide, you offer this defense:

"I did absolutely nothing. I did not aim my car toward the kid, and I did not speed up. And that kid was in a place where he/she did not belong, and as we all know, the wages of sin is death."

Magus55, if you offered such a defense, would you reasonably expect to walk?

Humans used their God given free will and committed evil acts with it, and in order to maintain Free will, God had to let it happen.

Magus55, that is a BIG load of horseshit. If you saw your kid point a loaded gun at another kid, would you smugly refuse to do anything and say "I mustn't interfere with that tyke's free will."?

... So the terrorists killed those people on their own, against God, but God used that evil act to bring unity to the world and other good things. ...

That reminds me of the old Communist apologetic that "it is necessary to break eggs in order to make an omelet."

And since Heaven would be free from such calamities, it would presumably not be a perfect place.

God is NOT willing to send his own creation to Hell. He doesn't want anyone to go there. ...

Magus55, your fantasy world is bizarre beyond belief -- what a weenie of a god that you believe in.

crocodile deathroll

I look on the events of 9-11 as the time religion disgraced itself. On one hand there this insane act that was done in the name of a so called "God" and on the other side of the theistic religious divide with we an omnibenevolent "God" that let it happen.

So IMO we have all just must rethink the natural world and not be an apologist for such a God. I just now wish people will get Jesus, God and the Bible/Koran out of their minds and start afresh.

lpetrich

And of all the participants, those who found the most consolation in belief in an afterlife were the kamikaze hijackers themselves, who talked about how success in their mission would make them worthy of everlasting happiness in the next world, complete with their getting harems of lovely ladies.

Did any of the victims of those kamikaze hijackings say "See you in Heaven"? Not that I'm aware of. Even the guy who said the Lord's Prayer before going to beat up his plane's kamikaze hijackers had not done that.

motorhead

Blah, blah, blah...this discussion has been undertaken numerous times since 9/11. (No offense at all to the individual who started the thread.) The real answer is that in all likelihood, at least as far as humans can tell, there is no god who controls humans or events in the world. It's been proven time and time again through history but religious believers refuse to admit it. There are real and many reasons behind why 9/11 happened and none of them have anything to do with an actual god. All the talk about free will, hell, why god allowed this, etc. is all pure speculation and has no evidence that these things are actually true.

happyboy

woo-hoo! i have been officially recognized as a source of high sarcasm!

a very happy happyboy

AspenMama

I do not see a great deal of unity. I see over 100,000 US citizens protesting the war in New York City in one day. I see protests in Washington DC and every other major city. Not all of our foreign allies are united in the war effort. Many are looking at us as the agressor without cause.