Hawkingfan

That doesn't make them "spritual".

No, it is the brain. There are a lot of different ideas about numbers. Infinite numbers are abstract. Pi is abstract. Imaginary numbers in algebra are abstract. There is an infinite number of numbers between any two whole numbers. Take 1 and 2. Between 1 and 2, you can divide the distance between the two an infinite number of times. There is 1.1 and then 1.11 and 1.9 and 1.99 and 1.999 and 1.9999 to infinity. That is abstract.

keyser_soze

As I am atheist, and as I know many an atheist, I will have to insist that you speak for yourself, or as a segment of the atheist group. And if you find no relevance in discussing it, why do you? Any discussion has value, even if it is about greek or christian mythology, or a thousand others. Hence the discussion of such things in academia. Please remove the stick.

Philosoft

This seems to be more of a General Religious Discussion...

keyser_soze

Agreed, and volker, in case you don't know the relevance of the stick statement, it's generally perceived as you need to remove a wooden limb of a tree that is lodge sideways in one's rectum, giving one an arrogant and sour outlook. Hint.

Volker.Doormann

This is an opinon.

I think it is necessary to show that atheist can exist without all what i have listed of spiritual relevance. Is truth an idea created
by a brain? Where in the brain is the discriminator for false/true?
Where in the brain is the discriminator for justice/injustice? Where in the brain is the label 'Atheist'? Physicly.

There is a reality and fiction. I think it is senseful to follow reality.
Ideas are self created fictions.

Volker

keyser_soze

Of course one can exist without it, people do it every day. Again, the fact that something is unneeded does not remove it's value.

Volker.Doormann

As I have written, the idea of heaven is related to the planets above in the night sky (Naturally there are also planets bottom of the earth while daylight, but they could not be seen).

This planets were taken as 'gods' and also the 12 astrological houses were taken as gods; the trinity of four time the spiritual elements of 'Fire', 'Earth', 'Air', and 'Water' were well known as 'gods' in the Indian Vedas as 'Brahm', 'Vishnu' and 'Shiva'.

Planets were taken as gods, because of their mental character, that stamps the mentality of new born creatures. Astarte, Ashera, Ester, Inanna, is allways the character of the planet Venus. Marduk or »Melchisedek« (Hebrew: Melech Tsedek) as the 'King of Righteness' known as the character of then planet Jupiter is often mentioned in the OT. These 'gods' or planets have a spiritual nonphysical existence because of their spiritual properties. The physical properties of the planets are irrelevant.

That, what is written in the Hebrew Genesis was taken from the Indian Vedas and was loaded with nonsense in the sequence about creating days and time.

"The nonexistent was not; the existent was not at that time. The atmosphere was not nor the heavens which are beyond. What was concealed? Where? In whose protection? Was it water? An fathomable abyss? There was neither death nor immortality then. There was not distinction of day or night. That alone breathed windless by its own power. Other than that there was not anything else. Darkness was hidden by darkness in the beginning. All this was an indistinguishable sea. That which becomes, that which was enveloped by the void, that alone was born through the power of heat. Upon that desire arose in the beginning. This was the first discharge of thought. Sages discovered this link of the existent to the nonexistent, having searched in the heart with wisdom. Their line [of vision] was extended across; what was below, what was above? There were impregnators, there were powers: inherent power below, impulses above. Who knows truly? Who here will declare whence it arose, whence this creation? The gods are subsequent to the creation of this. Who, then, knows whence it has come into being? Whence this creation has come into being; whether it was made or not; he in the highest heaven is its surveyor. Surely he knows, or perhaps he knows not." is to be read in the Indian Vedas, and it shows, that there are not so much elementary physical creation techniques creating »Something out of Nothing« to learn, as in the Hebrew Genesis imitation.

Judaism B.C.E. has done al lot of desinformation work in the OT to hide it's true roots about the spiritual aspects of planets as gods inclusive the Moon, which was called 'sin', and has changed the spiritual meaning of the myths to a physical genealogy of twelve tribes of Israel and the symbol of 'down in Egypt' as the spiritual meaning of a hell, only because of social claims of power. If one reads the parables of Jesus, he can recognize, that he has known this spiritual crime and has rejected the false teachings of the Jewish scholars, and can find explicit statements about the alocality and time independent properties of a nonphysical 'heaven'.

Volker

Volker.Doormann

The point is, that you teach the world, that a human being can exist without to acknowledge the non physical existence of: numbers, letters, logic, math, ethic, truth/false-separation, justice/injustice-separation, harmony, poetry, and the laws of algebra in music.

I think this is recognizable a wrong teaching.


Volker

Hawkingfan

And it's your opinion that they are.
Yes.
These are all in the cerebrum. Specifically the cerebral cortex and certicial regions known as associative cortex. You would also be using the Wernicke's area, a part of the cortex in the temporal lobe.
No argument there.

Hawkingfan

Well when I was a Christian I was told that this is only 1 of 7 levels of heaven.