Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Pantera · 01-18-2002, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mageth:
Gotta be the bonobo. If only we were more similar to them in social aspects such as conflict resolution and tension release...

The Discovery Institute actually has an unintentionally hilarious article on how evolutionists are trying to use the bonobo to undermine the American family (or something like that).

<a href="http://www.discovery.org/viewDB/index.php3?program=CRSC&command=view&id=1066" target="_blank">Click Me</a>

Pantera · 01-18-2002, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mecha_Dude:
Well, whadya expect? Bonobo DNA is closer to human DNA than even a Chimp!

Is this actually true? I thought that the chimp/bonobo divergence came well after the human/chimp divergence, which should put chimps and bonobos equally close to humans.

Toto · 01-18-2002, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pantera:


The Discovery Institute actually has an unintentionally hilarious article on how evolutionists are trying to use the bonobo to undermine the American family (or something like that).

<a href="http://www.discovery.org/viewDB/index.php3?program=CRSC&command=view&id=1066" target="_blank">Click Me</a>

ROFLMAO. The Discovery Institute (or the "lecturer in the History and Philosophy of Science, Franciscan University of Steubenville," who wrote the piece), sees evolution as part of the culture wars. It's just a nefarious plot to undermine Biblical patriarchal morality and replace it with decadent polymorphously perverse sex.

ps418 · 01-18-2002, 01:43 PM

<a href="http://members.tripod.com/uakari/pan_paniscus.html" target="_blank">Bonobos (Pan paniscus)</a> are chimps, right?

BTW, Who let all these filthy humans in here?

PSBTW, chimps are genetically more similar to humans than they are to gorillas or to any other organism.

[ January 18, 2002: Message edited by: ps418 ]

Dr.GH · 01-18-2002, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Is this actually true? I thought that the chimp/bonobo divergence came well after the human/chimp divergence, which should put chimps and bonobos equally close to humans.

You are correct, Bonobos and Chimps diverged after the human chimp divergence. See

<a href="http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/96/18/10254#Top" target="_blank">http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/96/18/10254#Top</a>

Mageth · 01-18-2002, 01:45 PM

The Discovery Institute actually has an unintentionally hilarious article on how evolutionists are trying to use the bonobo to undermine the American family (or something like that).

LOL. How absolutely horrible it would be if we settled conflicts with a little pre-dinner lovin' rather than with guns and bombs! Oh, the humanity!

Edited to add: the basic message seems to be sex is more evil than war.

[ January 18, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]

scombrid · 01-18-2002, 01:48 PM

Pantera,
That article is hilarious. The publicity of the bonobos is just another of the attempt of the leftist wackos at PBS to use evolution to circumvent hardline morals. Our aggressiveness is somehow justified because the chimpanzee, our closest genetic relative, is wildly violent. (Wait I should quote this one, I can't do it justice by paraphrasing)

Quote:

According to accepted evolutionary theory, we are most directly related to the chimpanzee, among whom (in de Waal's words) the "males are conspicuously dominant over females; they reign supremely and often brutally." Our closest fore-apes are quite aggressive all the way around, fighting not only over food, but females and territory as well. Alas, evolution seemed to provide evidence for the naturalness of the military-industrial complex as run by macho males who lord it over their submissive wives.

I love the part about the naturalness of the military-industrial complex.

ps418 · 01-18-2002, 02:02 PM

On a completely different subject . . . its kind of hard, for me personally, to watch a troop of chimps playing in a zoo somewhere, and still support some of the research that chimps are used for. I dont think Ive thought that issue through as thoroughly as I should. But on the other hand, I love steaks and cheeseburgers, and Big Macs never arouse moral angst in me . . . Go figure.

Mageth · 01-18-2002, 02:04 PM

I'm with you on that, Patrick.

bluefugue · 01-18-2002, 02:13 PM

Well, I gave up the cheeseburgers and steaks, but I still eat eggs and drink milk, so I guess I hardly have any moral high ground...

The idea of experimentation on a chimp is horrifying to me -- but honestly, I find the idea of experimentation on a cat to be pretty awful too. Still, pound for pound, I will put a human life over a chimp life, and if it saves human lives, maybe it's worth it. Definitely a major ethical dilemma, though.

01-18-2002, 01:43 PM	#14
ps418 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Louisville, KY, USA Posts: 1,840	<a href="http://members.tripod.com/uakari/pan_paniscus.html" target="_blank">Bonobos (Pan paniscus)</a> are chimps, right? BTW, Who let all these filthy humans in here? PSBTW, chimps are genetically more similar to humans than they are to gorillas or to any other organism. [ January 18, 2002: Message edited by: ps418 ]</p>

01-18-2002, 01:45 PM	#16
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	The Discovery Institute actually has an unintentionally hilarious article on how evolutionists are trying to use the bonobo to undermine the American family (or something like that). LOL. How absolutely horrible it would be if we settled conflicts with a little pre-dinner lovin' rather than with guns and bombs! Oh, the humanity! Edited to add: the basic message seems to be sex is more evil than war. [ January 18, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]</p>

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01-18-2002, 02:02 PM	#18
ps418 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Louisville, KY, USA Posts: 1,840	On a completely different subject . . . its kind of hard, for me personally, to watch a troop of chimps playing in a zoo somewhere, and still support some of the research that chimps are used for. I dont think Ive thought that issue through as thoroughly as I should. But on the other hand, I love steaks and cheeseburgers, and Big Macs never arouse moral angst in me . . . Go figure.

01-18-2002, 02:04 PM	#19
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	I'm with you on that, Patrick.

01-18-2002, 02:13 PM	#20
bluefugue Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,427	Well, I gave up the cheeseburgers and steaks, but I still eat eggs and drink milk, so I guess I hardly have any moral high ground... The idea of experimentation on a chimp is horrifying to me -- but honestly, I find the idea of experimentation on a cat to be pretty awful too. Still, pound for pound, I will put a human life over a chimp life, and if it saves human lives, maybe it's worth it. Definitely a major ethical dilemma, though.

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