Beheaded_Goat

I was debating someone on another board about the existence of God, and I presented the Theodicy Problem. My opponent said that God is omnipotent in the sense that he can do anything within his nature, and sin is not part of that nature. I replied that that would mean that everything is omnipotent because everything can do anything consistent with its own nature. What do you think of my opponent's argument?

HRG

The same as you

HRG.

Automaton

All it does is create a circular definition of omnipotence:

• A: Why can't God do evil?
  B: Because evil is not a part of God's nature.
  A: Why is evil not a part of God's nature?
  B: Because God can't do evil.

Your opponent unintentionally proved God to be impossible by rendering a key attribute incoherent.

Denshuu

Let the congregation say 'amen'

Your opponent needs to check up on the definition of omnipotence as it's prescribed to God. If it has unlimited, universal power, then it can sin. If it can't sin, then it doesn't have unlimited, universal power, and therefore can't be omnipotent.

Theli

It's the old omnipotence problem.
Something with a nature cannot do excacly everything (includes unwillingness), since a certain possible act would go against and negate the beings nature.
And if the being had no nature at all, there would be nothing to perform the actions (includes internal changes).

[ July 22, 2002: Message edited by: Theli ]</p>

Theli

So, do you think we can throw omnipotence in the trashcan yet?

DarkBronzePlant

At the very least, either omnipotence or benevolence.

Blu

God = Light, energy, a presence

Evil = Darkness, Void, Absence.


On Earth both darkness and light exist. Translated through the human experience there is evil deeds, evil thoughts, etc. Define evil. Evil actions harms life. Evil thoughts harm the thinker. Evil is Darkness translated through human experience.

God is not evil and evil is not in God's nature because God is not darkness nor an Absence. God isn't a human so therefor does not experience physical life as a human. So Evil is not in God's nature.


Evil is a creation of the human mind. Evil does not exist beyond the physical realm. Where there is no light or energy, there is only a Void.


What are your thoughts about this?

Look beyond Christian concepts.

Jayhawker Soule

Who would'a thunk?

Philip Osborne

Some arguments on this problem hold that worlds containing vast amounts of unmitigated suffering are actually impossible worlds, simply because they are incompatible with the existence of a Christian God. For example, consider the following pair of statements:

1. If it is for some state of affairs x to obtain, then God can cause x to obtain (Definition of omnipotence)

2. If God cannot cause x to obtain, then it is logically impossible for x to obtain. (Contrapositive of 1)

But it is traditionally held that omnipotence does not entail the ability to do such things as make square circles, etc. So if causing some gratuitous evil cannot be caused to exist by God, then it is not possible. And if it is not possible, then not being able to do it does not contradict omnipotence.

Alternatively, theists could simply abandon omnipotence for omnipotence*, which is the ability to do whatever it is possible for a morally perfect being to do.

- Phil