Yellum Notnef

Is anyone trying to do something about Ohio`s stupid (and probably illegal) state motto:
"With God, all things are possible."

<<shudder>>

With a motto like this I`m never surprised to hear about new fundy nonsense in Ohio.

Btw,
Isn`t Ken Hamm`s minisitry based in Ohio?

[ December 16, 2002: Message edited by: Fenton Mulley ]</p>

Toto

The ACLU found an ideal plaintiff - a Presbyterian minister who objected to that motto on theological grounds. It is a direct quote from Matthew 19:21-26. Just after Jesus says that it is harder for a rich man to get to heaven than for a camel to get through the eye of a needle, and his disciples say "but who then can be saved?" Jesus says "with God all things are possible." This is interpreted to mean that salvation comes through grace and not works, which has implications for something that Christians have been fighting about for the past 20 centuries or so.

Anyhow, they lost in district court, then won in front of a three judge panel, but then the judgment was appealed to the 6th circuit en banc, and was overturned. The motto was interpreted as just a general expression of optimism and ceremonial Deism, like "In God We Trust" or other meaningless phrases. The ACLU then decided it was better not to appeal it to the Supreme Court and have them do worse damage.

Details <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000121&p=" target="_blank">in this archived thread</a>.

The three judge panel's opinion is <a href="http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=6th&navby=case&no=00a0148p" target="_blank">here</a>, worth reading although it is not the law.

GaryP

RE: the State motto;

It was enacted in the 1950's due to the movement to accentuate the differences between the US and "godless" Soviets.

I think it was practically ignored for 40 years or so. Then former Gov. Voinavich (current US senator) went on a trade trip to India and saw a similar phrase emblazoned on a govt. building there.

Inspired, he came home and was successful in his initiative to have the Seal of Ohio and the motto put into the sidewalk leading up to the state capitol building.

That is what precipitated the legal wrangling over this monstrosity.

The only other place I have seen it is on our State income tax returns and that only in recent years.

I've always wondered why the state does not put this official motto on our license plates. Instead they use the "Birthplace of Aviation".

If we are so damned proud of the motto and it really can't offend anyone why not let all us Buckeyes wear it proudly on our vehicles?

[ December 16, 2002: Message edited by: GaryP ]</p>

GaryP

An answer to letters from people critical of taking Bibles out of the school;

I'm pretty sure my school system, as well as Fairfield Union, doesn't approve of "sexual perversion," but I really don't know what the writer meant by this. Maybe I should watch the Jerry Springer show more to understand. I would suppose the writer is talking about homosexuals. I can't speak for the school system on this (but I know we don't teach people to become homosexual). I can speak for myself, however. If someone is homosexual, that is their business, not yours. It doesn't affect you, so don't worry about it. But, if you want, I can introduce you to some friends of mine. They are great people, but they do happen to be homosexual. Maybe you can talk about this issue with them.

From;

http://www.lancastereaglegazette.com...on/650457.html

GaryP

Another response to the Bible controversy in Fairfield Union Schools;

But it is a fallacy that this is not a Christian nation. It is very clear in the Federalist Papers, the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, on our money and very officially elsewhere, that our Founding Fathers put a great deal of emphasis on the equality and rights that are brought about the existence of, as well as belief, in a divine creator.

from; http://www.lancastereaglegazette.com...on/709854.html

Dingus

Hello, GaryP,

I'm in the same area as you are! Small world.

Many of the small area schools are promoting religion via the teachers and the administrators. I didn't see the articles in the EG*, but heard it on the TV news. And, how I did smile!

Last year I complained that the Amanda school elementary office had a Bible on the self directly behind the secretary. The principle said he was not going to make the secretary take it down, since it was her private property. I wrote a very long letter to the principle and the secretary, also about that time I wrote a letter to the super; and the secretary later told me she took the Bible down - but couldn't see how one person can make such a decision (referring to me).

*I quit taking the EG because it was running wild with letters to the editor and the 'religious' people where sounding just too intolerant for me. It's been almost a year now since I dropped our subscription; then my husband wanted to know who died, so we just look it up on the Internet.

GaryP

Hey, nice to know there is someone else in Fairfield county who would take the time to write to that principal.

I've written several such letters to Lancaster school administrators myself. Some with positive results and some not.

I often wonder how that rule about a govt. employee's "personal Space" would be applied to public school personnel. I know of a principal who has a crucifix hanging in his office but it is not seen through the doorway. However, many kids go in and out of his office every day.

And the Eagle-Gazette drives me crazy too. But it does help get my blood pressure up!

Well--Go Aces!