Wyz_sub10

How so? Are vowels part of Satan's deception?

Boro Nut

Sometimes I just feel God's presence by my side, and sort of feel his affirmation or assent when I make the right choices, without him actually speaking words to me. By the same token I'm aware of his disapproval when my standards slip. When he speaks directly to me he mostly just tells me to kill prostitutes with a hammer.

Boro Nut

Farren

:notworthy

betzerdg

So this is the arguement I hear in this thread.

G-d didn't speak to me....so therefore I don't believe He EXists.

vrs.

G-d did speak to me...so therefore I DO believe that He Exists



Atheists spend years debating the existence of G-d...yet I have never once read a logical, provable arguement for the "atheistic theory" of how the universe originated....and knowing some of those presuppositions.....NOTHING ABOUT THAT THEORY is provable either.

So....exists exists and doesn't doesn't....and neither the twain shall met.

EVERYONE...even though they refuse to accept the fact....bases their "life altering" belief system on presuppositions that are basically not "provable".....Faithfulness to a wife...the way you treat others.....honesty, integrity, character....these are a part of your belief system...not based on scientific fact....so......I include G-d in these basic "identity producing" beliefs. You don't.

What's the point?Does that make me less intelligent?

Shalom

BEtzer

Wyz_sub10

I hear a lot of talk from theists about "atheistic theory". I'm not sure what that means. If you are referring to an origin of the universe without god, then I suppose it is atheistic. But like all theories that rely on the scientific process, such a theory would be a scientific one. Atheism is irrelevant. I stress this because I know a great many scientists who are theists but do not invoke god's name to explain how, for instance, oxygen is delivered to tissue.

But these are all influenced by our tangible experiences and by measurable events. Someone cheats you and you will be less likely to trust him. You find out your wife has cheated on you multiple times, your suspicion of her grows. There is an element of science to each of these beliefs.

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, I can likely prove your wife's infidelity (if she is being unfaithful). I could probably provide a very good argument, with evidence, that she is not cheating (although this would be more difficult - hence why we do not seek to prove negatives). In the case of god, either stance is almost impossible to prove.

No, but you should not be surprised to find people that will not support your view of the world - i.e. god's role or mastery.

Gooch's dad

I, for one, missed you while you were gone last month, Boro!

:notworthy

7thangel

Read Psalms 19:1-4, Romans 1:19-20, and Romans 2:14-15. The proof that God is talking to us is that when we "understand" His godhead. Because God personally reveals himself to the chosen. Speaking to God does not only mean having an oral interactions.

As I said above, if you understand the godhead, he surely spoke to you in variety of ways. The problem is that you are wanting more than what to be known of Him. Just remember that the Jews suffered apostasy because they seek a "sign." They have not understood that whole creation is itself revealing unto them of the godhead of God.

Have you thought that if you knew what is a true Christianity, you would not have had asked the question? In any case, as the bible said, some had entertained angels unaware.

Haven't you heard of apostle Paul? He even went on a havoc to kill christians, and yet in the end God used him mightily? And guess what? his conversion gave him actually a great burden that he even knew that he will lose his life preaching the gospel.

I doubt I could compare the joy I have in God with the atheist's. Contentment is true only if you remain existing, having eternal life. If contentment be a true good experience why it need to last? So if contentment lasts, then there is actually no contentment but only submission to fate. Submission to fate make us feel lacking in meaning, and feeling of uselessness. I guess not all will accept my belief.

No, grace extends to the whole being of man. I share the most common belief of Christians that without God, we cannot be good ourselves. Having the feeling of compassion and respect, does not consequently point to a good actions and thoughts. Neither having a good feeling and respect, and of good actions and thoughts, ends in a good outcome. Atheists, like theists, have no evil intentions. But the outcome when they act with good intentions is sometimes even harmful. Likewise the theists. I such cases, we need God to fill in such human weakness.

Farren

betzerdg

Just to make this clear. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Nothing at all. I don't care what you believe. In fact, I'll fight for your right to believe it.

While the heading of this thread doesn't make it clear, the first post does. I'm asking:

a) for testimonials regarding what a "relationship with God" constitutes.

b) if, having never experienced such a thing, I should believe it, and why? I'm asking for your proof. I'm not trying to convince you of something.

Thus, when you state that 1) he exists 2) you believe, you neither respond to (a) nor demonstrate (b).

A statement of belief is not a demonstration of the truth of the belief, it is a demonstration that you believe.

to demonstrate the truth of a belief, by definition, you must present information that can be verified by the person you are demonstrating to.

I'm sorry if my response was a little rude-seeming. I'm not trying to hurt your feelings and imply you're stupid or anything. You are honestly welcome to your beliefs. I'd just like your articles of faith demonstrated in a more stimulating and visible way.

scumble

I'd like to know something less vague actually, Farren. There's a lot of this "I can feel God at my side" stuff, but it could just be high spirits. Usually people feel good when they make a good decision, or think they have, to be precise. I often feel good about things I've done, but I don't think "Hey, it must be God".

Why, exactly, can't it be a result of humanity? Why do you need a kind of "Certificate of Authenticity" for being good?

xian

there is no parsimony involved with an inflationary quantum fluctuation from nothing.

there is no parsimony in the upwards propensity for complexity demonstrated in the theory of evolution

there is no parsimony in applying a "cosmic law" that parsimony is necessarily an absolute measure of determining truth.

there is no parsimony in stating that the finite components of the universe act according to natural law and principles of cause and effect, yet the most macro body of them all- the universe itself, which is simply a sum of its macro components...does not.